Victory, Defeat, Armistice, Taxes, Depression

[Desert Dave]

Originally posted by JerseyJohn:

I'm sure your post is going to get stoned, DD, but I think it's great.

All we need to do is look at our neighbor to the south, with it's abundance of extremely rich -- no one knows how many billionaires.

Their national product?

Poverty.

Their chief export?

The destitute. -- two or three million a year, every year, no one bothers to keep track.

Well, JJ, just so long as

I myself don't get stoned! LOL,

Ain't done that new fangled

Sort of stoning in 15 years.

The old-fashioned method?

Plenty of times!

But, this I know... as with you,

It only makes the stonee

That much tougher.

WRT the "rich," I am fair certain YOU

Anyhow,

KNOW I am speaking of those

Great Americans (... save the occasional

tendency to "monopolize" free trade )

Like Rockefeller & Carnegie

And Vanderbilt and Ford,

And NOT the hugely encumbered

"Middle Class,

Which is, these days, paying for

Damn near everything.

Also, am concerned about the failed

Immigration bill - again!

Well, the Mega-Corps sure do

Exploit that cheap - can't complain

Kind of labor, eh?

BTW, very much have been enjoying

Your historical expressions,

Such as the recent accounts

Of city-state of Venice

And the absurd?

Notion of "squatters" in & around

United Nations.

Boardwalk Raconteur is alive!

And, one hopes - VERY well

And yet playing some ball.

Bonds breaks the record

And, like Hank himself, I'm gonna

Go golf... ah never mind,

The fix is in,

The Con-boys have got the Nation's

Grand old game where it is damn

Near - unrecognizable, anymore,

Pinball in a shoe-box

I yet insist. :eek:

[JerseyJohn]

SeaMonkey,

Appreciated, and I'd definitely trust my own future to your ability to not squander it through personal greed. It seems to take a special kind of person, not particularly rare but still of a specific type, who feels the need to have it all even if means having everyone else living in poverty. I know we aren't among them.

Desert Dave,

Many thanks, and I've been enjoying your posts as well, and I read all of them.

I neglected to mention, but I'm sure you realize, that nation of squaters living around the UN is all the more surrealistic because that whole part of Manhattan is dripping with wealth. Men in business suites step over them without noticing on their way to high priced restaurants, at least that's the way it was when I was there, if it's different now it's just because the Police have relocated the box people to some other part of town.

Baseball -- they still play that game?

I was glad they had a news splash about Bobby Bonds being very good with an intoxicated fan who jumped the fence to go talk with him. He told the man something like, "We'll walk to the gate together because if you do it alone the police will jump on you and stick handcuffs on you and lead you off like a criminal." Really great to see the guy portrayed in a positive light; making it better was the fan being white so the race issue didn't enter into it.

Glad he broke the record, liked Hammerin Hank Arron a lot, but I think Bonds over the course of his career has earned the record -- as did Arron thirty years ago.

Game unrecognizable? For sure. More than any other game baseball is built on statistics, so I think the records should be kept by era now, something like:

1860 - 1899 Standardized Rules Develop

1900 - 1919 Deadball

1920 - 1946 The All American Game

1947 - 1968 Finally Integrated, Then Expanded

1969 - 1995 Divisions and Playoffs

1996 - .... Steroids and Plentiful Homers.

I was glad to see Pete Rose telling a sportscaster some thing like, "I played with and against some of the greatest players ever, some of the best power hitters to play the game, and even the strongest of those guys almost never hit an opposite field homerun. Now I see guys half their size doing it all the time."

*He laughed here.*

"Something in the game is real different from what it used to be."

*Another laugh*

"And these guys hitting 50, 60 homeruns all the time!"

*He shook his head and waved it off.*

The past ten years or so about the only baseball games I've watched was with my wife at the park, Little Leaguers. But even that's been ruined lately by an overabundance of dads acting like their sons are being groomed for the big-big-bucks. Along with that I notice it's summer and we don't see kids just playing on their own, no more sandlot games, they'll only pick up a bat and glove if pop is around and it's a league game. Really pitiful, they'll know the joys of using half a field, running the bases backwards and the team at bat supplying the pitcher. In other words, whatever this activity is these days, the word game seems to no longer fit.

JJ_R

I was fifteen in 1964 and really don't recall that happening. What I do recall is plentiful jobs that paid well and the whole country manufacturing. The United States has never been a country of lazy idle bastards. For every person who cheats on benefits there are twenty who are entitled to them and either denied by the bureaucrats, or too humiliated to push for what they should be getting.

-- There's an old newsreel from the height of the Depression in which a pair of white haired old men, Henry Ford and Thomas Edison tell the camera that if all the lazy bastards got off their butts and went out and worked everything would be fine. They nodded their heads knowingly. What they didn't mention was that there weren't any jobs to be had so what were those millions of lazy bastards -- the same ones who'd built the damn country in the first place -- supposed to be working at?

Social services in the United States today is a joke. It's a game. The government does it best to keep people from getting them and the ones who know how to play the game get whatever they want out of the system while the ones who really need it get turned away, by the scores.

I think the whole government, Federal-State-and Local, all over the country, is suffering from some sort of dimentia. Forget For the People and By the People. It's been so long since any government official in this country has thought about the people except at election time that the whole concept has become meaningless.

Time for all the nieces and nephews to lift Uncle Sam off the ground by his heels and shake him up and down a bit till he comes to his senses. -- wondering if I'll go on some government enemy list for writing that!

[jon_j_rambo]

@Sir Jersey --- Very much agreed. I personally believe we are living in the time mentioned as "The Mystery of Iniquity"...the falling away which rung in the "Laodecian Church Age"...the Final Countdown. Just keep paying those taxes, and Uncle Sam will be happy.

You are VERY right about the system being abused. Those who know the system, get the jack & really don't need. Those who truly need a helping hand, can't even figure out the scam methods & paperwork.

I too love baseball. As I've shared, played it thru high school & summer league in college. Currently play softball These roid monsters & big business skyboxes CAN NEVER TAKE IT AWAY! Don't let anybody steal your love or joy from what you like, just because they are clowsn. (examples: Baseball, Church, etc.).

Lots of Legends in this thread. Folks, you can learn a few things from Sir Jersey & Desert Dave. For the record, they are made men.

-Legend

[targul]

Need to be careful though. Yes there is fraud in the system but there are alot of people in need also.

My youngest son died in November of Lukemia he never received anything because they are so worried about fraud it took six months for his benefits to creep in and then since he died the day the SSI and Medical was to start they cancelled his checks. Leaving me with horrendous bills which I had to sell 3 pieces of my land to pay so I will now not have enough for my retirement.

In March my oldest son had a stroke. He is still receiving nothing since they continue to investigate first. Additional he was born in China so they threatened to deport him because I could not locate his birth certicate fromt he embassy. That issue is still not resolved.

I am not poor but I am paying all these medical bills etc. Since they are both adults I am not responsible but they are my children and a man always takes care of his own.

I am preparing to sell another piece of property to pay his expenses. That will leave me with Social Security. No one in this nation can live on Social Security so I am actually considering returning to work but at my age and since I have been retired for 12 years who would hire me. I certainly would not enjoy working at McDonald's or Wal Mart.

What the solution I really do not know. I feel this country desperately needs Socialized Medicine. Both my sons were working but there jobs did not provide health coverage. That isnt there fault. Neither did anything to cause there illness.

Hell the IRS will not even allow the deduction of the Medical Expenses as they are not mine. But if I do return to the work force I am certain the state will want that 300K we have been fighting over and simply remove it from my check since they will then have the power.

When I got out of the military they gave me a letter saying I was 30% disabled. I took that to Walter Reed which was required for processing. I spent a week waiting and never was seen with an appointment. Finally I just left and they got to keep the disability. Probably why they never saw me in the first place.

Now I recently contacted the VA again and just had my medical exam only took 6 months for an appointment but they did see me. Looks like that organization has gotten a little better.

Our government on a whole though has become so unfriendly and disassociated with those it serves that we have no chance of finding fraud or helping those in actual need.

[jon_j_rambo]

@targul --- I know what your saying, because I just read it

Just think about life outside the USA. Or people that live in utter sewers because they were born into, or decide not to fight their way out of it. Bottom line, I have no idea why God puts us thru stuff, besides His purpose.

I agree, the Beast has grown, and all we can do as individuals, is our best.

Pray Up,

-Legend

[JerseyJohn]

Brother Rambo,

Appreciated and likewise. I wish the two of us and Desert Dave have the chance to play on the same team in some league where the players get to be twenty again. I'm sure we'll have a great time. :cool:

-- Out here there's neither a chess club nor an adult male softball league. I may actually have died and wound up in hell.

As you know I'm not big on religion, but even I have to admit all the gloom and doom prophesies do seem to be well on the way to being fulfilled. :eek:

It would be a shame for the human race to join the dinosaurs now, at the very time when we're finally poised to set off and do something meaningful. Despite all we're saying I remain hopeful that some day, hopefully in the not too far off future, all of humanity will join hands and start working productively for the betterment of the human race.

targul ,

What a nightmare! My heart's out to you, brother. I'm not the praying type but if wishing that everything straightens out for a person counts for anything, you've got my sincere best wishes, and condolances for your son's death.

Over the years I've heard about and have actually seen people with hideously bad situations that have been treated in a very similar way to yourself. The United States government, and the vast majority of state and local governments, openly function on an adversarial system. And the adversary is seen as the American citizens.

Your case is so bad that I honestly believe you can get coverage from something like 60 Minutes or NBC Dateline. I don't mean for the publicity but to see if they can get something done for you and your family. Also, most local stations have a segment of the nightly news where they try to help people. I can't imagine any of them not covering what's been happening with your family. It's a real travesty, and that's putting it mildly.

My last memory of the U. S. Air Force was borrowing some money to get home when I discharged, getting home and getting a job right away and mailing the money back to my buddies with my first paycheck. A few months going by and, one fine day, a check from the government arriving -- my travel pay. :confused:

Really hoping all works out for you without your having to go back to work. You definitely don't want to work in a store; neither do I at 58, tried it a few years back and hope now that I'll never again need to go that route.

[jon_j_rambo]

This article shows it all, why the majority of the USA people, doctors, churches, & the country as a whole has become a complete diaster. The moment you turn to drugs to "heal your depression", is the day your country has said no to God. That simple. If you are looking for happiness in a bottle, you're looking in the wrong place. Are you kidding me? We are spending all this jack & resources because somebody is feeling sad? Repent of yours sins & get a job...and you'll feel just fine. All those "happy pills" are being paid by the working stiffs. Because the depressed are too sad to work. Meanwhile, when a REAL medical condition comes along, that money was blown on some lonely dude. Reading about the depressed, makes me depressed, NOT !!! NOT !!! NOT !!!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/07/09/antidepressants/index.html

[Liam]

Rambo beforwarned, Depression is a disease and the cause is usually a miserable existence, some people are definitely faking but beware prejudging what is the treatment and what is the cause. Some people have been abused, tortured... some are chemically messed up... some just are lazy and lead unhappy lives... MANY Veterans are depressed, stress like that screws you up... Though you're entitled to your opinion and I agree no Happy Pill is the answer, there are many ways to treat Depression and a pill may or may not actually do you much good. Not enough research has been done on that path in my opinion. Anyway

Yes, some people in need of the US system have been shafted. Some people aren't so lucky and you have to pray things work out for you. In the USA do not count on the System to help you, you might be better off on the charity of the Doctors and Health Care Workers... I have found some really honest & generous ones willing to do charity work. Taxes are for sure along with death...

In Canada Medicaid is for everyone. They do have to pay for prescriptions. Their taxes on a purchase can be as high as 30%! SO I suppose the taxes pay for it. A lot of European nations are like Canada... UK, Sweden to name a few. though some claim overall healthcare suffers.

Regardless of all this I have seen some of the best efforts in the USA, and if it wasn't for their social system and caring Doctors I myself may not have made it.

[jon_j_rambo]

Depression isn't a disease. It's a manifestation of a spiritual problem within, a lack of hope. Of course there is depression, it exists for a reason. It isn't a matter of luck. You don't get "chemically mixed" up. The truth & answer is free & simple, but the majority doesn't want it...oh well, they join the cannon fodder of the future.

You know why our soldiers get depressed? Because these maggot newstations tell them they are doing wrong, when they are doing right. Screw 'em. When you're in war, it's bombs away & don't look back.

All kinds of veterans in my family line, they ain't crying a river. Far as what Canada, Europe, and the rest do....I could careless when they are marrying dudes to dudes.

My grandfather went thru the "Great Depression", he didn't get depressed, he worked. When he couldn't get work, he made work...

Nobody owes you a job.

Nobody owes you healthcare.

Nobody owes you squat.

After my first job out of college, I was dead broke, lived out of my car for a month, roach motels, friend's couches, whatever...I was happier then, then I am now. I was more opt to listen to God's word then, then I am with a full stomach.

It ain't about the dough, it's about the heart. Home is where your heart is. What do you think about? What motivates you? What is important to you? What makes you happy? What makes a man tick? ETC.

The birds eat & don't worry...how much more will He provide for you?

-Legend

[Blashy]

JJvR you are way out of context here.

Depression is STILL not known if it can be caused via chemical imbalance but current research is leaning towards that yes it is very well possible that you can be mentally affected in this manner. And with all the daily toxins we are over bombarded in this world (again GREED) then I can definitely see it happening. After all, Alzheimer's, Multiple Scloris, Cancer, Parkingsons, and a wealth of other diseases are caused by two factors only; insufficient immune system or over bombardment of toxins. Why can't the brain be affected in such a way?

And each person is different how certain situations affect them, one person will freeze in combat while the other will get a wild adrenaline pump and yet they could be sitting next to each other facing the same dire consequences.

The brain is the most fragile part of the body and the MOST complicated function in all known life which science is still baffled at how it operates.

[jon_j_rambo]

Okay, there can be possible exceptions to a steadfast rule. Not every apple is the same, although still an apple. We can't compare apples to oranges, yet in some ways they are both fruits...just word plays.

Here's a moderate position for you. Okay, there are some dudes with issues (whether be war, broke, crackhead, guilt, worry, whatever), but when over 50% of are drugs in the USA are to depressed people, something is screwy! Why are all these people in the USA on depression pills? Maybe some dudes from 'Nam, Desert Storm, Police dudes, deathrow, single mothers, deadbeat dads, crack addicts, methheads, or some depressed stockbrokers...okay Blashy, I'll give you some margin there. But why half the pills in the USA for this lie? Why the schools passing this crap out like candy?

Take the jack blown on depressed people & put it towards real research for cancer, and real diseases.

Funny, I'm the nut, but I'm happy Not only that, the funny nut doesn't need pills, just his book. Yet those with the pills & depressed, laugh at the happy dude...They'll try the pills, but not the book, LOL The Joker has them.

We've got the lifestyle

Too much Legend

Too little time

Too many happy pill poppers.

Somebody rack me & quick >>> I'm OUT

[n0kn0k]

I pay about $150 a month here directly (dunno how many also goes to healthcare indirectly though through taxes).

For that money I get full coverage against anything medical.

Even alternative medicine, contact lens, and glasses.

Imho a bit too much for my taste.

A lot of waste and whacky stuff here.

And sorry to hear about your sons Targul

[JerseyJohn]

I worked in a pharmacy for a few years in the late 90s. Up till then my attitude was pretty much like Brother Rambo's in that I thought most depression was self-induced. I sympathized with people but deep down felt people who got abnormally depressed were just wallowing in self-pity.

Not true. Most of the Rx's I handed out were for depression cases, or for people with other problems and depression was in there too. Some of the people getting them were young kids.

While I was working there a few of those people committed suicide. One guy kept going through his Rx the day he'd get it and once he came in and wanted to fight me across the counter (I ran a cash register, wasn't a pharmacist). He got out of control and ran around, which was insane because he was half my size and none too strong. We finally calmed him down -- of course I wasn't about to have a fist fight with him anyway -- and he apologized. The pharmacist had to make a quick fix for him and she called his doctor for authorization. After that he was so doped up that he was never again a problem.

Clinical Depression has nothing to do with self-pity or whether the person has a job or a good career or is happy or sad. It's just something a person gets, as Liam and Blashy were saying, and last I heard they don't even know the cause or have a cure.

I do agree with Brother Rambo that Americans are way too pill oriented and a lot of people do try and find happiness in a pill. Doesn't happen, of course, if they do find something like happiness it's only temporary and the downside is usually very bad. Others try finding it in a bottle or illegal narcotics. My choice has always been the bottle, but I've been fortunate in that it never ruled me. I love the stuff but have gone years without a drink, which is pure luck, if my genes were a little different I'd have been a real alcoholic.

When it comes to things like drug addiction, alcoholism and manic depression there's no point feeling smug if you're not in that wretched number. As was said earlier, different people react different ways to the same thing. You're either stuck with those genes, or you aren't, it has nothing to do with choosing a path.

[Blashy]

JJvR, ok I see where you are going and do agree. But that goes for ALL medicines. It is all about treating the symptoms and not the cause.

Treating the cause i.e; resolving the issue is not a profitable business for drug companies.

Depression is their favorite because there is nothing substantial on it and many people don't get the proper help, pop a pill and stay on them for the rest of your life... sounds pretty profitable.

FYI, if you think USA is bad, when it comes to anxiety and depression pills France per capita is the worst in the world... double the likes of other western nations.

Putting medicine and food as a for profit business is the dumbest idea any government has ever had.

I guarantee a cure for cancer will never be found, too bad for business... until it becomes rampant and they start to loose their buying public, then they'll have cure.

[jon_j_rambo]

Okay, since we've gone full circle on this & everybody is happy (if you're not happy, please pop a pill), I have one last question.

Anybody got a hot stock tip for the next best happy pill?

I've owned the old Phillip Morris (MO) for off/on for the past 10 years; I love making jack everytime some down & outer puffs a Marlboro.

I made a tiddy sum of $8,000 when Priolsec OTC came out in generic for stomach ills.

Now, the Legend needs a hot tip on the Happy Pill. I'm pretty sure PFE is king, BMY? My favorite health/medicine stock play is ABT, a great mixture of lines.

Maybe I've missed my true calling in life, I should be a shrink & give up my professional game playing job? Okay, I'm Dr. Rambo, Shrink, M.D. You sit on my couch. I talk to you. I listen to you. I tell you you're nuts. I charge you $200 for the visit. I offer a family discount of $800 for everybody, including the dog...then I tell them they are all nuts. Then I perscribe half of dozen happy pills, charge the insurance companies $500. Then I invest in the drug company making your purple pill.

Sounds like a plan, thanks chumps!

-Dr. Jon J. Rambo, Shrink, M.D.

[JerseyJohn]

Bravo Brother Rambo!

[Blashy]

ROFL, love the edit on the subject JJ .

[Baron]

Guys I feel your pain. After two deployments my 40 year old body just isn't what it used to be. While serving in Iraq the only treatment a soldier got was a bottle of Motrin unless he had the misfortune of getting hit by the enemy. I came home and was told to go see the VA for the medical treatment I should have had in Iraq. To make a long story short in the last 3 years I've had 5 outpatient operations on my back. I filed for disability in August of 06 and just received a rating effective June 07.

Here is the fun part: the VA did not count any of my family members when figuring my payments (although I have to give them this information every year for their means test). I filed the necessary paperwork last month and called today to find out the status. You are going to love this: they are so back logged by the same Charlie Foxtrot mistake that they are just now working on the paperwork from Nov 06 - so in another 8 months they will get to it. More fun - has anybody ever had money taken from them by the Government for debts owed when they filed taxes? Well Uncle gave me the stiff one this year. Apparently a person only gets 2 years of treatment for line of duty injuries unless they have a disability rating. Well since my claim had been on file for over a year with no action taken on their part they billed me for all the operations I have had on my back. In fact they over billed me. I forget what the balance was but by the time they took the money and gave it to the VA I received a letter from them saying I now had a credit with them!!!!!! So now I have to take the disability rating to the billing dept and wait lord knows how long to get the money back that they never should have taken in the first place!! If I’m lucky I might get a check for my credit balance also….I won't even get into the appeal process (documented hearing loss after both war tours that isn't considered by them to be a disability).

As of right now I'm still in the service waiting for a medical review board from the Army to review my medical records. Why did it take so long to see a board you ask? Well apparently the VA system that the Army sent me to is not considered a military treatment facility. So they sent me a civilian Dr. since I'm over 200 miles from the nearest active duty base. He then took my VA records and wrote the Army that yes the records were indeed accurate (I don't know how much that trip cost the Army). You just have to love military efficiency! In the mean time I became very ill this last spring and ended up in the emergency room after a $600 dollar ambulance ride. Why was I sick? Because, the medicine the VA was prescribing me almost killed me that's why. None of the documents that come with the medicine or the Dr. who prescribed it mentioned the known side effects of this medicine (better yet they didn’t test to see how much of an effect the medicine was having on me in spite of all the operations). The ER Dr. knew what the problem was as soon as he found out what medication I was on he tested me and got the result in less than 10 minutes. Yes sir nothing but the best for the serviceman in this country!! I’ll say a prayer for all of you silicon warrior brothers and I hope things improve for all of us.

[jon_j_rambo]

I had a $700 ambulance ride last year. For what I was being taken for, I should have called a cab or pizza delivery dude...or better yet, some gangsta' who has a pimp ride. I just wasn't able to drive w/o risk. There were two hospitals I could have gone too. The closer hospital would have only been $400 ride, for an extra 10 miles, it cost me $300. The closer hospital is ALWAYS overcrowed...if you ain't dying, you ain't gettin' in for hours.

Either way, I'm thankful for the medical care in the USA.

[jon_j_rambo]

*** HOT STOCK TIP IN ***

TJX --- Rumors of LBO (leveraged buyouts) is driving the July-30 calls high. Sell some covered calls & make yourself 5.9% for 2-weeks of rent.

AA --- Earnings call right now, with new metals contract to China. Sell some July 42.50 calls & make 3.5% in two weeks.

Low risk, tasty profit.

[targul]

Yea I am stuck in that VA crap at the moment. As I said just had the physical now wait for results. They gave me meds and pay for the doctors stuff since I am a purple heart person otherwise I too would have to pay while I wait for them to decide.

As to depression, I have never been depressed life is what it is. I cant change it so I will survive regardless of what happens or I will die and not care either way no reason for me to be depressed.

I had a sister who suffered from depression. I was really unable to have empathy for her. I do not know how other people handle things but when I overdrank as a teenager I decided that was stupid and quit. After smoking for about 20 years I found evidence that I believed that smoking was bad so I quit.

When I feel that life is mistreating I simply try and think about the good times.

When I consider my son who died which I consider the worst thing to ever happen in my life I try to remember the good times we had together. Sure I cry and feel sorry for myself but only because I miss him so much.

Since I believe in a diety I have th confort to know we shall someday be reunited. Without that I do not know how one can survive some of the things that happen to us.

As to advertising my problems I would never do that. We do what we must to care for our families. I made these boys and love them dearly so money really isnt important when it comes to them.

I only mentioned it in here because so many were talking about bumms collecting wrongfully. I just hoped to remind them that yes there maybe some fraud but let's not forget there are people in great need and we should attempt to help them and deal with the fraud as a seperate issue.

[jon_j_rambo]

@targul --- I don't know you, but you sound like a fine gentlemen & family man with much wisdom. Dealing with harsh realities of life is something I take to "The Diety" also...those w/o "The Hope", well...I pray they turn to the true & living. Even the hereos of the Faith had many, many, many trials & tribulations...Job, David, Lot, & the average Joes of today, yesterday & tomorrow. We'll understand it better by & by. Burying loved ones is horrible...EVEN if we know they are in a better place, it's obvious we miss them. I too think about the good times, dwelling on the negative sux & isn't healthy, yet we don't deny that truth, just don't want to relive that. The laughts, the moments, the times, the songs, the love, etc.

"Men like my father can never die. They are real to me today as they were in the flesh" --- Roddy McDowell as Hugh, in the absolute classic academy winner, How Green Was My Valley.

To keep this thread related to SC2, I told Yodl during a recent game...I hope God has SC games in heaven for you.

The Softer Side,

-Legend

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by targul:

...

As to advertising my problems I would never do that. We do what we must to care for our families. I made these boys and love them dearly so money really isnt important when it comes to them. ...

I didn't say, or mean, that you should advertise your problems. What I'm saying is that often the only way to fight the government, and win, is to start an investigation. In doing so you wouldn't only be serving yourself, but also others who are being screwed by the government.

I know all about the reluctance to get into that, been there, done it three times over and was quietly screwed three times over. Doing something like that goes against my grain too, as it does with probably 99% of the population, which is what the bureaucrats count on. The other 1% who actually speak up and go to different organizations for representation are the ones who actually get what they're entitled to while the rest of us get screwed over and over again.

Blashy,

Glad you like that title editing.

-- I wanted to do it earlier so I could spell Armistice correctly, then the thread started meandering around so I figured it would best to update things.

Hopefully there's enough room in that space (going to a second row) for another two or three digressions.

[Miech]

Hmm, a good politicsthread!

From the Netherlands too

NoNook: waar kom jij vandaan? Woon zelf in Hoofddorp

He forgot about some other taxes, like taxes for certain items that are in the eyes of the administration 'bad' (even more since we now have a socialist/fundochristian Government, probably the worst ever in history imo). cigarettes n stuff. Government seems to be keen on banning welll...everything. Not a single constructive 'hey you citizen, you may now do this without fear of being fined or jailed.'

But back to the taxes:)

If I count everything concerning taxes, I think we have a tax pressure of about 70% in total, name 1 single country (even Finland) where this is higher. This includes all taxes and secret taxes, along with Local taxes (oh and taxes:P).

The USA has laughable taxes, which imo is great, it motivateds people to work.

Your insurances and healthcare suck though

[targul]

Easy to say we have low taxes but you fail to add up all our hidden taxes which are plentiful. Gas is taxed at horrific rates. Cigarettes and Alcohol are also taxed heavily. But you add state, local, sales, luxery, death, land, school and more taxes you begin to wonder if they really are allowing you the live. I can even remember in PA they had a right to work tax but if you didnt work you had a right not to work tax.

Americas overall taxes are near the same but we lack services. Social Security is a joke. Healthcare is die on the streets we dont care,

Our government does not care for our old or disabaled.

We are now ranked low in modern nations for our education level and it is droppoing due to lack of funding.

The homeless problem is American is huge with according to present reports more then half of them being Vets.

Our standard of living has deteriorated for many years in American and continues to decline. While many other nations have made great gains.

American has not understood yet that we should work on the major American problems at home prior to invading other countries so that we can then rebuld them.

We are both not in charge of the world nor should we be.

Rant done I have said too much already.