jon_j_rambo Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I just got done watching the movie,"The Great Raid", nothing but Legends...no wonder local theaters won't play it, nothing but truth. Should SC-2 have POW Camps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 yeah...you can consider POW camps as tile improvements or something ... 'hard labour +3' by default Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Perhaps reaching a specified tile gives you victory points. Example: Occupying Paris before Date XX.XX.XX gives you 10 points, or reaching tile 23-24 (rambo's POW camp) gives the allies 4 victory points if accomplished before 1943. In other operational level games - you might get 20 points for occupying city B and 5 points for occupying city C at game end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P Wagner Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 For the actual truth of the event, I recommend the book, Ghost Soldiers by Hampton Sides....it is an excellent account of the heroic act but you will be disappointed when you discover that the actual "raid" was rather uneventful and not the hollywoodized version seen in the film...actually the Filipino supporting actions were more dangerous than what the US faced at the prison...a great event which deserves attention, but take the film with a grain of salt...... [ February 01, 2006, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefMan Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I am not really sure if i like the idea of having pow camps in a game. As a player I may not necessarily want to capitalize from inhumane treatment in pow camps ("hard labor +3"). Especially the treatment of russian pows in german captivity bordered on extermination. We are pretty close actually to asking for the inclusion of concentration camps. Thats just my opinion why I would not support the idea of pow camps in sc2. If HC should pick that idea up however, some suggestions: Pows are generated when an infantry or Tank unit is destroyed. The number of pows generated depends on unit type, unit strenght at the beginning of the turn and random chance. The total number of pows held captive generates a possibility of partisans appearing in your homeland But my favority solution regarding pows - do not include it as an aspect of the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGungHo Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 I agree - don't put it in. Because if you do then it would seem to me that you'd be logically compelled to put concentration camps in as well. Points given for liberating them, and for the German player, points given for holding them longer so you could murder more people? No thanks! I realize that in reality that's the effect the German Army had by holding off the Allies for as long as they did. But that's not something I want to put into a game. I suppose you could argue we ought too as a reminder of the evil of the Nazi regime - but I don't think it deserves to be trivialized in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted February 1, 2006 Share Posted February 1, 2006 Hear! Hear! AZGungHo, i concur!. No thanks! I realize that in reality that's the effect the German Army had by holding off the Allies for as long as they did. But that's not something I want to put into a game. I suppose you could argue we ought too as a reminder of the evil of the Nazi regime - but I don't think it deserves to be trivialized in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Add Concentration Camps too? I was just thinking POW Camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGungHo Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hey Rambo, I know and understand what you are saying. I'm just saying that if you do that then there's no logical reason not to include Concentration Camp is there? And I don't think anyone really wants to go there, so I'd just prefer to leave all that alone and concentrate on the strategic issues of the war, which is what SC 1 or 2 is all about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santabear Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 POW and concentration camps didn't have much effect on Germany's strategy. Any effect of extra labor can be accounted for with MPPs. In real life, whatever economic plusses Germany got from their POW (Russian) and concentration camp policies, they lost (and more) by their destruction of local economies. So adding camps to the game wouldn't add much. We all should keep in mind, though, that when we "play" Axis, our "good guys" murdered millions of innocent people. Of course if I ran Germany then, not only would we have won the war, but we would have been great humaniarians too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRO,JD Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Why? They were not strategically important. If you have POW camps, you might as well have battalions and companies and autobahns and elections and a myriad of other micro-manageable items. Strategic Command is a strategic game, and POW camps were not a strategic objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by santabear: ... In real life, whatever economic plusses Germany got from their POW (Russian) and concentration camp policies, they lost (and more) by their destruction of local economies. ... We all should keep in mind, though, that when we "play" Axis, our "good guys" murdered millions of innocent people. Of course if I ran Germany then, not only would we have won the war, but we would have been great humaniarians too! There's a way around this in the game. I had a scenario once called, A Saner Germany, in which it's an expansionist regime but not the nazis. They aren't rounding up and killing people and don't have a racial agenda. Their only objective is to put all of Europe under a single regime. The scenario is simple: 1) Germany starts with Industrial Tech L=4 -- To simulate having the large number of German Jews contributing as part of the economy and also not having the exodus of highly skilled Jewish professionals. 2) Disable Soviet Partisans. -- Under a benighn Germany Ukranians and others would have accepted the Germans eagerly, as they actually did at first. Only this time there wouldn't be any SS goons running around committing ruinous butchery behind the lines, causing the creation of partisans from people who wanted more than anything else to live in peace without Stalin's arbitrary cruelties. Yugoslavian Partisans remain enabled because their cause was nationalism first, I think they'd have rebelled even against an enlightened foreign domination. Scorched Earth remains in effect because that would have been done by the withdrawing Soviets. -- -- And that's it, the Saner Germany Scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGungHo Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Interesting scenario - an idea that's discussed often about how a saner Germany would have been able to more successfully fight the war. True as far as it goes - but I do have one major problem with it and it's this: Why would a saner Germany have started the war in the first place? It's not like they had any real reasons to go to war. So if we'd had a saner Germany we would have probably ended up being their allies again Russia than what actually happened. That might make an interesting scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 AZGungHo All right, so call it the Less Insane Germany Scenario. The premise wasn't that it was a contented government or country, only that it was as expansionist as the nazis, but without their psychotic racism. -- There would have been plenty of reasons for an ultra-nationalist government to end up starting another world war. It would have wanted the Danzig Corredor back along with the rest of Poland, which had been ceded to it by the Treat of Brest-Litovsk. There would also have been Alsace-Loraine and other areas that had been taken from Germany at Versailles. The difference is, this bunch would be militaristic and expansionist, but not filled with racial hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZGungHo Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Okay - I concede - you have a good point there! When SC2 comes out maybe someone will make a mod of it - that would be fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Yes John, please extend us that "Saner Germany" scenario. No one in their right mind would have faulted Germany for trying to recover its dignity after Versailles and the botched handling of the postwar world that the League of Nations tried to administer. And I do use that term loosely, "administer". Sounds like another multi-national organization we have presently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 If you guys are going to start playing with POW/Concentation camps, maybe trains & railroads should be added too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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