What about axis dow on lc turn 2?

[Kuniworth]

Is it possible to do? Would put pressure on France mmediately. How many turns do you got for messing around with Poland?

[Liam]

it's possible sure, not a great move

[Retributar]

Dare to put your hand on the 'Lower Countries' that soon in the game, while you are engaged with 'Poland',...and you'll be pulling back a 'Stump'...instead of your hand!.

[Blashy]

Benelux and Denmark on the second turn are both easily done and Poland still falls before the end of 1939, usually last turn of November or first turn of December.

32 MPPs extra from Sept 39, instead of Spring 1940. Good money

[Liam]

Originally posted by Blashy:

Benelux and Denmark on the second turn are both easily done and Poland still falls before the end of 1939, usually last turn of November or first turn of December.

32 MPPs extra from Sept 39, instead of Spring 1940. Good money

yeah but he hasn't read the manual obviously on what he's missing if he leaves them but lets not spoil every kewl aspect of it... Let's just say Happy Wermacht Soldats get happy from what? Cake

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Kuniworth:

Is it possible to do? Would put pressure on France mmediately. How many turns do you got for messing around with Poland?

I always do that : in the first turn I operate 3 armies (the 2 that can only move 2 hexes and one that can move 3 hexes) to the Low Countries and take it while I take Poland with the remaing units.

Usually both fall after turn 3, together with Denmark.

But it's not to put pressure on France, you can't attack it anyway yet (you need the other Poland troops). The reason is simply because it gives more MPP's this way.

[ May 01, 2006, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: TaoJah ]

[Blashy]

You can attack France, you can usually kill off a couple of units before Winter hits and if you place your AFs right, you can keep hiting Paris all winter to get XP and keep it from entrenching.

In the Spring, smackdown.

[CharonJr]

Hmm, concerning those 32MPP, since the Allies get Iceland that way and US/SU activation goes up a bit, are you sure that you are not giving more than those 32 MPP to the Allies.

In addition don't forget the costs for op-moving the units you need for the attack.

Considering the warm fuzzy feeling - there could be better times for that, too (e.g. spare Denmark till DoW on the SU ).

CharonJr

[Blashy]

As Axis you need MPPs now and not later, this is how I see the benefit and not permitting the French any entrenching or build up.

[hellraiser]

hitting denmark and benelux later (immediately before going for france) means double morale loss for the allies for a few turns - > thus french troops cannot counterattack germans in France anymore. So it is probably better to attack them in spring 40, unless you gamble for a good weather in 39

[CharonJr]

And taking Poland on turn 2 is very important, too. IIRC you lose about 100MPPs of plunder for taking it later than turn 2. Likely gets less the longer you take, never took it later than turn 3, so I don't know this for sure...

And if you get unlucky (bad weather, LC unit between Brussels and Essen) you might not even be able to take LC by turn 3 (less MPPs, France gets stronger).

It is a gamble I think, but it surely can offer great rewards

CharonJr

[Blashy]

Both have their + and - .

The biggest factor is that France has no time to prepare with troops or reinforce its units.

The huge moral boosts for taking Benelux, Denmark and even Norway one turn before entering France is also a big factor in waiting.

Since you play people over and over it is always good to mix it up.

[Fartknock3r]

But if you get stuck in LC with that weather your going to get screwed....

[Blashy]

Not at all, 2nd turn weather is clear, you take LC and Denmark. Next turn you can easily move into france a little and start hiting those french units, even in mud.

You can then operate your AFs Weast of Benelux capital and ping Paris all winter long.

[Liam]

A Smart Frog, will retreat from the frontline against Benelux. If the Germans pursue in Winter weather it is true it does cut time in half the fall of France. It's a HUGE bonus. Though if a German by chance must use a sea approach it's possible she could have a badly damaged unit or have it destroyed by coastal bombardment and mixed weather. I had this happen against one opponent...every turn for me was mud and then clear for him, then ice for me and then mud for him. So he destroyed an Army and Paratrooper and badly maulled some corps and other equipment. Regardless I could take both Poland-Denmark by turn 2 and then with good fortune Benelux turn 3 and start hitting Frogs even in poor weather. The Morale bonus is pretty nice! Though keeping French so weak they can barely reinforce is nicer... I'd say that France falling any later than June of '40 is bad news for the Axis

P.S. if the Axis go too wild on you, disband your Fleet and reinforce and upgrade your Armor, that will buy you some time. And an Axis player generally won't be in position until turn 4 for an all out invasion of France and by then poor weather gives you time to refit

[Blashy]

You can't disband your fleet, this exploit has been corrected in SC2.

I've never been close to the coast, its suicide and France can be taken without getting units on the coast.

I can attack France on the Axis turn 3, not full out but more than enough to keep him from entrenching in front of Paris and getting new units.

[Liam]

Originally posted by Blashy:

You can't disband your fleet, this exploit has been corrected in SC2.

I've never been close to the coast, its suicide and France can be taken without getting units on the coast.

I can attack France on the Axis turn 3, not full out but more than enough to keep him from entrenching in front of Paris and getting new units.

you're right, I have tried, Frog fleet is here to stay, you can however operate 2 French corps from the med to the Battle

[hellraiser]

Transporting med fr units to France is a very good move - they get replaced by uk units to keep Italy down. Those 2 Corps, if well placed, may earn you an extra turn or so in France

Not disbanding ships - now this is a very good ideea, not the gamey approach of SC 1

[hellraiser]

Anyway, I have encountered both approaches ref. operating west. Condor for example favours a very aggressive approach - the sooner Paris falls the better. Terif doesn't like to gamble for good weather and will move units in west manually (most of them) using the spare cash to finance diplo efforts (Spain) and upgrading some stuff and hit LC/Denmark (double morale hit for the allies) and then march thru france relatively unopposed (low morale would render french counterattacks pretty useless).

Some pros and cons do exists for both of the alternatives:

- aggro approach, as someone posted - you keep hitting french even in mud/snow forcing them to reinforce rather than invest in weird stuff like buying chits for Iraq (to make convoy available for UK); due to higher morale (in the spring especially) axis units can be counterattacked and if played carelessly even destroyed). This option will make available 2 cities earlier but the cash bonus is irrelevant since Axis must spend a lot on operating west). If Axis is lucky with weather, well then Allies do have a problem...

- cautious approach ala Terif will have more or less the same effect from the point of view of the date France will fall but will make available more cash earlier for tech/diplo investment. By turn 3 Axis have 5 chits in Spain and if UK doesn't counter in time, Spain joins -> game plays out far more easily for axis this way. If UK invests in counter-diplo, the Med defence will be lighter (no cash to do them all) and axis will get it in 1940, no sweat. It is a win-win situation for Axis this way. The single 'cons' would be that french have more cash available and will most likely invest several chits in Iraqi diplo so as to make available the convoy for UK (once Iraq hits 30%, the convoy kick in). UK making over 100 mpps in summer is very good for the Allies.