n0kn0k Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Damn this beats watching a movie Excellent. Remind me to poke Hubert for a replay option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Yep, Rommel gave orders not to be disturbed...after 2 years of counting sand corns in his underwear and playing camel poker to kill time he therefore finally died peacefully in his bed in Alexandria when suddenly a US blind shell fell through the roof on his head . Again perfect timing from Allies here – next turn it would have been too late to conquer Alexandria...Axis as well prepared a Middle East offensive on their side too in order to attack Allies there in a pincer movement and sent a massive transport wave towards Egypt-Syria...only Allies arrived one turn earlier . So since destination ports are now blocked or in enemy hands, von Bock and his task force of half a dozen units had to reroute and land in Tobruk instead of Alexandria-Cairo....this time the UK bomber placed west of Alexandria can spot Axis units popping up around Tobruk like ants... Unimpressed from the allied ambush against Egypt, Axis forces in Russia start their assault against Fortress Caucasus to force Allies in a two front war in the MiddleEast-Caucasian combat sector. Russian tank gets bombed out of his fortification northeast of Grozny while simultaneously german paratroopers occupy Baku and its oilfields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 @Blashy: To be inferior in numbers has not much to say in SC2 - same applies for mpps . Never quit and give up too early. Only if you surrender you really have lost...usually you always have still a chance to turn the tide till close to the end...but only if you don´t lose courage and continue to fight ! Choosing the right time and place for a battle is much more important than numbers or mpps and if you achieve tactical advantage in a battle you can easily beat a 2:1 superior enemy force. Just have a look at the last naval battle: 15 allied vessels with better tech against only 11 axis ones - result: 6 allied fleets sunk vs only 1 german and naval superiority shifted to Axis. The same can happen the other way around if Allies can force Axis in a battle of their choosing...that´s also why my main fleet decided to retreat in the battle before and let Bismarck and Andrea Doria die the death of a hero instead of assisting them in battle...better to cut your losses instead of sending more units into an already lost battle that is fought on enemy terms. That is also one of the reasons why luck plays no real role in SC2 - one sided luck can give or take you maybe a few hundred mpps in total...one well fought battle easily makes a difference of several thousand mpps and offsets any random influence (See land battles in Russia or again the last naval battle: Allied losses: ~ 2500 mpp vs ~ 500 mpps on the Axis side). Here in the game Axis may now have numerical superiority, but Allies still have their core fleet with better tech and after reinforcing, it also has the potential to gain back naval superiority if Allies next time can force Axis into battle on their terms. Besides, Allies still have mpp advantage and their land forces are strong in numbers - at least their UK and US forces...Western Allies had 4 years preparation and only lost 2 units in France... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Terif, I have watched this AAR intently. I have a few ideas here. Seems that the Allies have done superbly with the British and the US though a little more poorly with the USSR. 2 Major flaws to the Allied plan, throwing away their Navy in an encounter too far away from Friendly Air and Ports and Throwing away their Superior Russian Ground Forces in a do or die mission outside of Stalingrad. I think JG has more up to '42 experience then beyond, but I think a lot of us players do... We lose the focus after that... Without the Caucasus Mnts, without a Superior Fleet, and without another ace in JG's hole, what does he have to throw at the Axis? Superior naval power means you can counterblow any move he might perform. You're likely entrenched heavily in France and a little side conflict like Egypt will not be much more than Fly in your ointment, he would have to bring down 2 to 1 land units to throw off the Axis in any Theatre... Especially against such a tactician as yourself. At this point and time he just doesn't have that I'm guessing. What I wouldn't mind seeing if you actually swapped sides with JollyGuy at this point and how you yourself would then perform and what decisions you yourself would make to pull yourself out of the hole if it is actually workable.. I myself wouldn't surrender, but I doubt at this point you will make any mistakes with your Axis..given that, You've got the Map even if he has tech and #s... They aren't in the right place now and it'll take a great tactical manuever to outdo you... The Map is bit easier in the later years to Recon with Minor Units and such so what can he do? Of course you may only be able to answer this after the Battle since this is a ranked match! Originally posted by Terif: @Blashy: To be inferior in numbers has not much to say in SC2 - same applies for mpps . Never quit and give up too early. Only if you surrender you really have lost...usually you always have still a chance to turn the tide till close to the end...but only if you don´t lose courage and continue to fight ! Choosing the right time and place for a battle is much more important than numbers or mpps and if you achieve tactical advantage in a battle you can easily beat a 2:1 superior enemy force. Just have a look at the last naval battle: 15 allied vessels with better tech against only 11 axis ones - result: 6 allied fleets sunk vs only 1 german and naval superiority shifted to Axis. The same can happen the other way around if Allies can force Axis in a battle of their choosing...that´s also why my main fleet decided to retreat in the battle before and let Bismarck and Andrea Doria die the death of a hero instead of assisting them in battle...better to cut your losses instead of sending more units into an already lost battle that is fought on enemy terms. That is also one of the reasons why luck plays no real role in SC2 - one sided luck can give or take you maybe a few hundred mpps in total...one well fought battle easily makes a difference of several thousand mpps and offsets any random influence (See land battles in Russia or again the last naval battle: Allied losses: ~ 2500 mpp vs ~ 500 mpps on the Axis side). Here in the game Axis may now have numerical superiority, but Allies still have their core fleet with better tech and after reinforcing, it also has the potential to gain back naval superiority if Allies next time can force Axis into battle on their terms. Besides, Allies still have mpp advantage and their land forces are strong in numbers - at least their UK and US forces...Western Allies had 4 years preparation and only lost 2 units in France... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted May 20, 2007 Author Share Posted May 20, 2007 Liam, IMO Terif will win this one, too. He probably plays more SC2 in a week than I play in months. And this is the only game I have going before I take a game hiatus. You make a good point, though, in that I did better leading up to 1942. Like Terif says, SC 2 goes in phases, back-and-forth the pendulum can swing. Terif has magnitudes more experience from 1942 than I have. But not to discourage the others. It took me maybe a dozen games to get my pre and early Barbarossa game down. A handful other games and I think I could give Terif a better run for his money from mid 1942 on. I ask other good players on this board to post their AAR's, as I will linger and read them with interest. I may be back in the Winter, when the rain makes us Seattlites housebound, and SC2 games sound like a good way to pass the time. I also want to thank Terif again for taking the time to play me, its been a great learning experience. You (Liam), Rambo, Terif, and some of the other veterans are great adversaries, the games are always interesting. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Back to the game: August 1943: Heavy battles in Egypt as well as Fortress Caucasus...both sides each loosing tank/army and 2 corps....Grozny conquered by Axis. Finally the axis eastern Mediterranean fleet steps in and starts sinking allied transports...there are so many, they don´t even know which one to sink first ...Allies obviously hadn´t enough space in Egypt to land them all...only 11 heavy allied units found a tile around Alexandria . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Widespread deaths on boths sides...no turn passes by without more than half a dozen destroyed units...Axis factories working at full capacities to replace at least partially the losses in this bloody stage of the war....while shipyards in Greece, Portugal and Spain are busy repairing and upgrading italian battleships and german subs...meanwhile the first naval battle occured near Alexandria when several allied cruisers arrived via Suez loop...heavy airbattles between various german AFs from Tobruk and UK+US fighters around Amman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
targul Posted May 20, 2007 Share Posted May 20, 2007 Nice report of the battles far away. I hope to be participating in on line play and email play after my vacation. I am new to this game but have been playing wargames since 1959 so I am not new to wargames. I normally play Computer War in Europe but after testing this one the last couple weeks I am impressed by both the game and the players. Anyone interested in an email game should contact me at storeforest2@aol.com. On line direct play I will not be available until Memorial day and after since I am off on a rafting vacation. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted May 20, 2007 Author Share Posted May 20, 2007 As Terif said, you need to continually adapt. With that in mind I retreated the remaining Russian Caucusses survivors to the Middle East, where they will join with the veterans of the battle of Alexandria to carry on the war, as it occured to me that I can harass the Caucusses and possibly even reclaim them. At the very least I'll tie Axis troops down, as with Russian paratroopers I can drop in when my LR air Allied fighters and/or bombers spot an opening. Yes, we will go into 1944 both licking our wounds and rebuilding. In Egypt the Allies solidify their positions and dual with the Luftwaffe. The one transport I lost I should have landed in Syria, but again adapdation is the key. I'm not sure how many Axis land units have been lost, I'll check next turn, but it could be in excess of 40. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 War continued...we are now in February 1944: While Axis secured positions within mother Russia and prepare for their assault against Ural, Western Allies went on the offensive... Tobruk: Key position in Africa and meanwhile built out to the largest fortress on the african continent...thousands of aircrafts standing ready in the protected caverns, 2 engineer-brigades expanding the fortifications hundreds of miles into the desert...more than a dozen armies and corps standing ready to defend against the evil forces from the east.... 5 UK/US airfleets and 2 bombers from Alexandria/Cairo finally started the desert war in October 43 by killing von Bock in his command outpost...demonstrating LR 3...following this surgical operation, UK tanks together with originally 8 US/UK armies and countless corps attacked the german frontline east of Tobruk...2 US armies and several corps get killed in the first wild battle, together with half a dozen german units on the other side, including italian engineers...Rommel got dispatched immediately into Tobruk to take over command of the Axis forces... at the beginning each turn 2-3 fresh units arrived as reinforcements via Tobruk port...until he got destroyed by enemy long-range bombers....despite Rommel and his reinforcements, Allies now attack in overwhelming forces...not much more than half a dozen german units defending and 3 fortifications are left of the once proud fortress Tobruk now....beyond the death zone around 2 dozen enemy units storming towards them....at the same time UK forces from England also started an invasion in northern Germany, conquering Essen and Hamburg. So at the moment Axis forces are wide-spread all over Europe, the axis empire at its largest expansion...but now fighting a 4 front war: - Kesselring with tank, army and 4 corps against the UK invasion in northern Germany - Rommel and his desert rats fighting a hopeless battle of retreat against the 4:1 superior allied forces - Manstein together with his task force just conquered the oil well in Iraq but is now forced to retreat back into the mountains as 2 strong russian task forces with armies and 2 paratroopers approach... - Axis main forces are concentrated against Ural...where nearly every mountain tile is manned by enemy corps and armies...looks like another 2 dozen russian units are entrenched in their mountain fortress... Losses for both sides have been extreme so far...49 axis land units vs 90 allied ones lost, 8 axis naval vessels vs 19 allied ones....Allies have the ressources to take such losses without too much trouble...having still lots of units...Germany barely able to replace all losses...less than half the available tanks built, also armies and airfleets far away from maximum... But this is also due to extensive investments into the naval arm of the axis forces...and so what the ground forces are missing, the axis fleets have in abundance and can now proudly announce complete and undisputed domination of the oceans...Axis subs raiding all allied convois: Iraq, Egypt, Canada and USA...no merchant ship passes through any more...potentially more than 200 mpps/turn can now be raided if necessary...Englands population already demonstrates in front of Buckingham Palace to end this war before they all starve to death... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 How many troops landed in Northern Germany? That was a pretty good move if he can hold there for an extended period. Taking Africa is all good but it will not do much damage to Axis mpps. Down there the key is Rome, take it out and drop a unit and all Italian forces disappear. Curious to see what Jollyguy will do down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Yeah, that's a nice diversion JG(N.Ger. landing). With Axis control of the seas it will be a tough expansion, unless Allied bombers appear in earnest numbers. Air trumps fleets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Sounds like the game is coming to a climax. German forces going into the Devil's Den of the Ural mountains. Expedition Allied forces in Northern Germany, could cause much distraction & damage. North Africa going to Allies, but in '44, that is to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Good summary by Terif. Yes, the Allied African expeditionary force surprised a second German commander, who didn’t have much time to get too comfortable in the balmy 120 degree weather. Before all of his desert, khaki commander outfits arrived from his favorite Italian tailor, he met the same fate as the first commander, when, as Terif said in an earlier post, “a US blind shell fell through the roof on his head.” Three US long range fighters (level 3), joined by two RAF comrades, and a US and British bomber flew over in wave after wave until the second commander met his untimely end. As can be expected, the third commander seemed a bit more cautious, and after landing eventually moved west, away from the front, instead of east, toward it. The Allied bombers hit Tobruk and its port to slow down reinforcements and reduce supply. Meanwhile, out west, two British corps land in Northern Germany and take the evening shoppers in two cities by surprise, as all the German soldiers had been dispatched far-and-wide across conquered territories, leaving no one to garrison the Home cities. The US bomber, LR 3, before being dispatched to Africa, had spotted the empty cities, and the commandos who landed were happy to find them still undefended when they waded ashore. Unfortunately taking the port was not possible, as it’s guarded by a corp sitting atop a three three-sided fortification. One city is taken back by the Germans a couple turns later, the other hangs around for a bit longer, before he too will have to take up accommodations in POW camps…or cemeteries. Meanwhile, in Russia, Uncle Joe has been forced all the way back to his Urals dacha, a place he never liked that much as the local vodka isn’t as good as it was in Moscow and then Stalingrad. He’s also upset that his domain has shrunk so much, which leaves him fewer opportunities to conduct pogroms and mass deportations. And he can’t purge anymore officers, because they’re all needed at the front! My convoys are getting raided like crazy, the sad result of allowing Terif to establish naval supremacy. A valuable lesson for the next war. Meanwhile I’ve fired my Admirals for such ill-conceived strategies and hired new ones (they’re lucky I didn’t make them walk the plank), and we’ll see if their replacements can change anything. I still think Terif will win this one, but hey, it’s good experience. I’ll take him into mid-1944 at least, which for all that have played Terif know is quite an accomplishment in itself. An actual victory might have to wait before my gaming hiatus, but it’s been fun nevertheless! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Go Jolly go! Go Jolly go! Go Jolly go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Interesting - Cairo is in allied hands if I understand correctly - that means Yoda cannot go for London and end the game right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Crikey, JG looks like he is a pretty good position here. If he can keep harrassing the Axis on all fronts like this, and drag out the death throws of the USSR, he could be in with a chance. Those LR airfleets with an Allied Para or two could cause a lot of trouble in Western europe and tie up yet more Krauts. The germans sound quite stretched out. Fight to the last man JG, you can win this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 War continues...we are now in May 1944: Allies are gaining ground...6 axis land units destroyed vs 3 allied ones...Fortress Tobruk with its last existing fortification has been eventually abandoned and will fall next turn into enemy hands despite naval support from the sea and bombardements of US armies by the Axis fleet. Rommel operates to Tripoli where engineers are preparing the next fortress while some light corps are entrenching in El-Agheila to delay the enemy so the fortifications can be completed. Manstein task force has to retreat from Iran/Iraq after some losses – oilfields again in russian hands, defence perimeter implemented behind river Araks (boundary between Russia and Iran). Only light skirmishes near Ural mountains...Axis waiting for clear weather to bring their airfleets into battle. But in the Atlantic Axis immediately demonstrate the newly hired british Admirals who now rules the seven seas... finally also german LR bombers and airfleets arrived to support them with spotting capabilites and air cover...and so they start sinking the rest of the allied fleet....first one to taste the might of the Axis navy is the last US cruiser with GLR1 + ASW2 which gets sunk directly under the enemies nose in Manchester port by several german subs lv3 to make clear who now has naval supremacy . Due to demands by the british citizens, both allied bombers operated a while ago back to England, but they can only powerless watch the destruction...Axis vessels have free hand and sink every enemy ship in sight....each turn up to 100 mpps are raided, no merchant ship reached England any more during the last 6 months ...the population is in despair, fighting for bare survival with their neighbours about the last pieces of bread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 June 1944: Clear summer weather...offensive against Fortress Ural can begin...countless german armies and tanks start moving towards the sinister russian mountains...while half a dozen airfleets take off from their airfields... Axis corps defence lines in Caucasus are holding so far...2 enemy HQs spotted on the other side of the river commanding mighty armies...but entrenched in their mountains behind the river, german corps have nothing to fear... In Africa allied forces accelerate their speed, attacking El-Agheila...too fast...german forces counterattack....destroying a UK army...german cruisers and italian battleships bomb Tobruk and its port to zero to eliminate allied supply. England and Ireland: Dark isles in the ocean...defended by 3 armies, 7 corps, 2 bombers and figthers...U-32 gets sunk in front of Manchester port...Heavy airbattles...port bombed to zero by several axis bombers and italian battleships...UK cruiser within it destroyed by subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Man I hope this subs attacking in ports is fixed. That is so ridiculous, attacking ports was a virtual suicide mission. I do not know if Middle East Allies have Motorization L2 but if they wish to go back into Russia they will surely need it. Russia is not threatened by Allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 @Blashy: Yes, subs in SC2 are a bit overpowered when it comes to ship vs ship battles - didn´t occur historically in the extend it can happen in the game and higher port defence vs subs surely wouldn´t hurt. On the other side in fact the standard subs don´t do much damage to ships in port, only if you research high tech subs they really become dangerous to ships in port...so you also can say if they develope the right technology and tactics to attack ports it could have also happened in history and is perhaps not that unrealistic . In any case ships in port were not invulnerable - quite in contrary at least vs bombers. In the situation here any ship in Manchester port would have been destroyed anyway in real life...probably not by subs, but by the countless bomber attacks and battleship gunfire . However - independent from the game here - since players know that against high tech subs ships are not save in port when the enemy has high tech subs, they only have to adapt their strategy to this fact. Good example my resent game vs Hellraiser where his Axis had subs lv 4 ( AAR here ) - since my Allies know hiding in port doesn´t work, they fought the battle on the open sea and were hiding at places the enemy couldn´t reach or where they had aircover . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terif Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 July 1944: El Agheila is in enemy hands – 2 german corps lost in the desert...in England the Royal Airforce returns back to their homes...only to be thrown immediately into the next air-naval battle around the isle...U-34 sunk at Manchester port by carriers from Edinburgh and bombers...carriers under attack by 2 axis bombers likewise...german fleet retreats at the sight of those impressive enemy airpower now present in England...also needing some repairs and further upgrading... In Russia the war gets hot...Axis main forces loose 2 armies in the Ural mountains...but Russia also lost army, 6 corps and a rocket detachment...3 fortifications destroyed...airfleet shot down to str 1 by german paratroopers...meanwhile Russia started a counterattack many miles west of the main battle: russian troops approaching Vologda/Archangelsk...several german corps already got dispatched to face the new threat and lead off the fight in the Taiga... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman uk Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Great AAR. I keep refreshing hoping for further updates. Please post some screenshots after the game when able. Roman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jollyguy Posted May 27, 2007 Author Share Posted May 27, 2007 I don't know how to do screenshots, but Terif does. This game has been a great learning experience. Terif always said the Urals was a great place to stage an Allied counter-offensive, but I never really believed him. Now I do. It's an incredibly hard nut for the Axis to crack. Anyway, this is like two boxers trading blows. A second Axis sub heads to the bottom in view of the denizens of Manchester, but not until after the Manchester port is reduced to 0 by Axis bombers, cutting off shipments of Spam and silk stockings from the States for the GI's to distribute to the English ladies. In retaliation two Axis bombers, one German, one Italian, supported by a figher flying escort, hit and damage one RN carrier. Next turn the RAF strikes back, and hits the German bomber with successive strikes with the damaged German fighter only able to provide ineffecitve resistance. The bomber is taken out on the ground. In Africa the Allies take El Aghelia, but all along the coast find their supply sources subjected to continual shore bombardment by Axis capital ships. Across the Med the Allies had earlier spotted Athens occupied by a corp, and ponder if that would be a place to attack, as the Rumanian oilfields would be opened to strategic bombing. In Russia the Axis takes one of the Ural cities, losing several armies and an Italian paratroop in retaliation over two turns. Uncle Joe is holding on by his fingernails, and in all liklihood Russia will fall. But, like Deja-vu, this will all be remembered for the next contest, which in SC 2 can happen over and over. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I am glad to see that JG's spirit was not dampened by the loss of his fleet and he went after every possible method in order to survive! Against the formidable skills of Terif he has certianly provided us with one of the most indepth and best quality AARs in SC2 History... For Competitive games sakes. I'm shocked to see the Allies in control of Large portions of Real Estate in N.Afrika, MidEast-Urals... and were able to trade off lose and come back and look at every avenue and route possible! Terif has purchased a fine navy, historically one could imagine what losing control of shipping lanes meant to Britian, a tiny Island! Along with control of the skies, a great deal more! or dispute of it If you wish to post your images best way is imageshack.com... just include your E-mail and attach your file for uploading then view your file and copy paste the image here... via the image button below your posting... In order to create your image files, simpleway.... just hit Print Screen whilst Sc2 is open, open Paint by going through Start-Accessories-Paint Paste and save your image under the name you wish... There you go. Sighs, longwinded? not so hard takes a little practice to get it right JG GET HIM! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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