Why not convoy routes on the main map?

[Chris G]

The far most irritating thing then it comes to the interface is that you’ve to switch between the convoy and main map to try to place your subs and/or ships in the right position. Time consuming and still not enough to succeed in placing them right every time.

Please Hubert, put the routes on the main map. It could be an on/off button or at least as an option. I guess we can’t edit it ourselves.

[Lars]

They're working on it.

[Lah]

I think it is better without, simulates a mild fog of war where you only have rough information.

[Lars]

Never heard the Admiralty described that way.

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Lars:

They're working on it.

Just to clarify that if anything is been done on "it".

It is "He" and not "They".

As beta testers we only know what Hubert "has" done once he releases a test build or a patch.

We do not know what he is working on, he's plenty busy improving the game, we don't want him wasting time telling us what he is doing, or do you? .

Basically whenever we say anything, it is not GOLD unless it is directly from GOD himself :cool:

[Lars]

Sorry, I should have said HE'S looking at it.

[Timskorn]

After thinking about it I like the bit of guessing that goes into finding convoy routes. After awhile you get to learn their general vicinity and can find them pretty quickly, and it does simulate a bit the uncertainty of U-boats finding their prey.

It's better than always knowing exactly where you need to position your U-boats because their is a big yellow line running on the tile screaming, "Go Here!". When you look at the convoy map now, it sorta feels like I'm overlooking an intelligence map giving me the general route of the convoys and I have to figure out precisely where they are.

HEY, I got an idea. At the beginning of the game, for example, the convoy routes are displayed but are very rough indicators on where they actually are. The Intelligence research would then also double up on narrowing down exactly where the routes are at sea. At level 1 the convoy route shifts closer to its actual location until at level 5 its precisely where the convoys are.

[Lars]

See the other Convoy threads. You're on the right track.

[Chris G]

Sry, but I get so damn tired of all idiots that all the time comes with more or less stupid defences for flaws in the game.

You don't need to guess anything! I know exactly were the routes are, I just DO NOT want to spend unnecessary time with it. Got it?

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Chris G:

Sry, but I get so damn tired of all idiots that all the time comes with more or less stupid defences for flaws in the game.

You don't need to guess anything! I know exactly were the routes are, I just DO NOT want to spend unnecessary time with it. Got it?

I second that.

Both parts of the statement : it's getting indeed annoying to read these defences from certain persons for obvious game flaws.

[Fred19]

No need for such an offending response methinks.

[Desert Dave]

As originally posted by Chris G:

Sry, but I get so damn tired of all idiots that all the time comes with more or less stupid defences for flaws in the game.

You don't need to guess anything! I know exactly were the routes are, I just DO NOT want to spend unnecessary time with it. Got it?

TaoJah, agreeing with Chris G:

I second that.

Both parts of the statement : it's getting indeed annoying to read these defences from certain persons for obvious game flaws.

OK, let me see if I understand this.

Chris G feels that anybody who disagrees with him is an idiot.

Though, I'd bet, he believes that he himself is not one!

TaoJah is also annoyed.

Not a problem, but.. question for the both of you:

Just curious, but, who are these "certain persons" that you have failed to name, preferring, apparently to make blind accusations... well, gee, who are these awful idiots anyhow?

Now, you've expressed your opinions, I shall do the same.

In every debate, there are pros & cons... there HAS to be, else there would be no reason to even worry over the issue, true?

You discuss things, preferrably without denigrating your worthy SC brother/opponent, who would disagree.

Give and Take.

Thesis, Antithesis.

The Garden and the Snake.

Said another way, you chisel away pieces of that unformed mass of marble, and, like Michaelangelo the sculptor of old, discover the "genuine essence" of that stolid block, which was ALWAYS - IN there, merely waiting to be revealed. :cool:

Speaking for myself, wearing only the play-tester ball-cap, for now,

Excuse me, I don't believe it is part of my charge to say something as this, concerning ANY part of SC-2:

"Yeah, what a terrible flaw!

What idiot could be so simple stupid as that!"

LOLOL.

No,

Instead - I try to point out, as Blashy and Bill will do, some of the reason & rationale behind the Game Designer's decision.

Though, not always exactly correctly, in which case, Hubert enters into this necessary discourse, and says - nix nay, that ain't QUITE what I had in mind.

[... really, he says it more elegantly, and with patient courtesy, but you get the idea?]

Sometimes one will play "devil's advocate" just to keep the conversation moving along.

However,

I do not recall that ANY of us testers, nor most of the other members has called someone... an idiot?

Or a dope smoker?

LOL, HOW could anyone sitting alone

In front of a computer,

KNOW who smokes tobacco!

(... nicotine is indeed a VERY addictive drug, which is legal, which can kill you... a horrible way to die, not feeling as though you can even breathe! :eek: )

So, why ever would you guys play the school-ground name game? :confused:

Realize,

Almost EVERYTHING about this great game

Is up for review.

State yer case,

Do it with some ordinary respect,

And MORE folks will be inclined

To listen to you.

O/W, as now,

I just don't think you've helped us out

Very much.

Now,

As to your question.

Will there be some change in the interface

For convoy routes?

I don't know, maybe

Maybe not.

But,

I CAN say this, and, sure, it is merely ONE opinion among VERY many... as long-time game-player:

I don't mind it, as is.

It doesn't take so much time to check,

Every now & then.

It hardly interferes with my own enjoyment,

AT ALL.

Could it be better?

Sure,

'Most ANYTHING! in the whole wide world

Could be better.

[Edwin P.]

I don't see the convoy routes not showing on the map as a game flaw, its a design decision. As with every decision some will agree and others will disagree. But overall, I like it.

The one enhancement I would add is the ability to change convoy routes every six months, and not have your opponent see where the new route is unless they have an advantage in Intel. It might be to the north or it might be to the south, or perhaps it didn't change at all as the USA decided to stop sending MPPS for a turn or two to trick the Axis.

This would require updating the Convoy scripts with a new parameter to identify the route - i.e. 0,1,2 (0 is the default route, 1 & 2 are the alternate routes) - adding a choice list box to the convoy map screen that can be changed every six months - and allowing the Axis player to see the true convoy route (not the default route) on the convoy map if he has Intel Advantage.

[Chris G]

Then you talk about them, they turn up …

[Chris G]

Has anyone heard anything from Hubert & Co regarding this issue?

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Chris G:

Has anyone heard anything from Hubert & Co regarding this issue?

There is no "Co".

It is all Hubert.

[lparkh]

I vote for convoy routes on the map. I don't see how it teaches us much or makes for a better game to have to flip between two interfaces.

[Timskorn]

I'm also not in favor of this. Originally I was, but I'd rather not see the exact convoy lines directly on the map. If it was a more complex system maybe, but the way convoys work now I'd rather keep it the way it is. It's really not that bad. Most of the time you can get your subs in the general location and if you haven't hit the lane yet, check the convoy map and make an adjustment.

[TaoJah]

Perhaps someone should post all the exact coordinates of the convoy routes, that would be easier too

[Blashy]

Originally posted by Timskorn:

I'm also not in favor of this. Originally I was, but I'd rather not see the exact convoy lines directly on the map. If it was a more complex system maybe, but the way convoys work now I'd rather keep it the way it is. It's really not that bad. Most of the time you can get your subs in the general location and if you haven't hit the lane yet, check the convoy map and make an adjustment.

But they should definitly be viewable to the Allies. Those are their routes after all, hehe.

[Timskorn]

True! I suppose if I saw the lines on the map, saw that my US->UK lane was being hit, I'd use waypoints to send my ships directly down it until I'd invariably find the sub. Still not sure it's worth the effort to implement though. HC would have to create special tiles that only the Allies could see, correct?

[R.J.]

The rout waypoints are in one of the files – can't remember which one – but I copied and printed it about half-way through the demo (you know, the bit about candles better than cursing). Anyway, here's the Allied wp's:

Canadian Supply Convoys To The Uk:

Percentage 100 Spring% 75 Summer% 100 Fall% 75 Winter% 50

Source Port 15,20 -> 19,20 -> 23,19 -> 26,18 -> 31,12 -> 43,9 -> 53,9 -> Destination 60,13

Mediterranean/Far East Convoys To The Uk:

Percentage 100 Spring% 100 Summer% 100 Fall% 100 Winter% 100

Source Port 113,34 -> 118,37 -> 36,37 -> 42,24 -> 47,16 -> 53,11 -> 57,11 -> Destination 60,13

Middle East Convoys To The Uk: Country Trigger 30

Percentage 100 Spring% 100 Summer% 100 Fall% 100 Winter% 100

Source Port 134,33 -> 139,36 -> 28,37 -> 40,24 -> 45,16 -> 53,12 -> 57,11-> Destination 60,13

Us Supply Convoy To The Uk: Historical Date March 11, 1941; Country Trigger 40

Percentage 20 Max Percentage 30 Spring% 75 Summer% 100 Fall% 75 Winter% 50

Source Port 6,23 -> 14,23 -> 26,18 -> 31,11 -> 42,8 -> 51,8 -> 56,10-> Destination 60,13

Uk Supply Convoy To The Ussr: Historical Date September 1941

Percentage 20 Max Percentage 40 Spring% 75 Summer% 100 Fall% 75 Winter% 50

Source Port 60,13 -> 58,11 -> 57,6 -> 61,2 -> 68,1 -> 74,0 -> 108,0-> Destination 110,1