Game needs aspiration

[well-dressed gentleman]

To have no heroes is to have no aspiration...to live on the momentum of the past, to be thrown back upon routine, sensuality, and the narrow self.

-Charles Horton Cooley, the Sage of Ann Arbor

I remember Squad Leader had a unit called the hero, which could single-handedly achieve feats beyond the ken of an ordinary leader or squad unit. These men were literally unbreakable.

Players loved it, and it improved the game. I realize the scale of SC2 is larger than SL; but is the magic of a hero truly nothing but an irrelevant spark in the clash of nations?

I say no. The game designers have commited a grave oversight.

Germany had Erich Hartmann, the Soviets had Vasily Zaytsev, ANZAC had Charles Upham and the British had Mad-Jack Churchill. The USA had Ira Hayes.

For those who don't think one man can make a difference, consider the case of Gurkha Lachhiman Gurung, who fought 200 Japanese while blinded in one eye. Russian Ivan Sidorenko scored 500 axis kills.

Seventh Day Adventist Desmond T. Doss would not take a life; and was abused by his comrades until he rescued 100 of them on Guam by lowering them down a 400-foot cliff using a tree stump and a rope.

And get this. German pilot Hans Ulrich Rudel destroyed over 500 tanks, 150 guns, 1000 vehicles, a battleship, two cruisers, a destroyer, 70 transports and 11 other aircraft, was shot down 30 times, lost his right leg below the knee and continued fighting with a prosthesis until the end of the conflict.

So I think singular heroes should affect the training and especially the morale of an allied or axis combat unit of the appropriate type; but lose their spark if assigned to a headquarters or a rear-echelon unit. Maybe do commando operations too.

Historical figures should be included, because they easily might have fought in wwii, if they'd only been born at a different time. This option would open the game to fighters like Siegfried (who killed a dragon) and liver-eating Johnston (who beat an indian to death with his own leg and then ate it).

What's a corps compared to that?

[J P Wagner]

So I guess you want a Sgt Rock or Sgt Fury unit incorporated in this game huh?...

Seriously though, the one thing that came to mind while reading your thread were those two 5-6 German Armor units in Third Reich. You treated those two units like gold!

[Desert Dave]

Most X-cellent Post, WD Gent. :cool:

One of my heroes from the WW-2 era

Was... Ernie Pyle,

The Pulitzer Prize winning

War Correspondent.

I can re-live some of his intrepid exploits

By visiting his former home,

Now turned into a Library,

Not 10 blocks from where I live

Here in Desert City... the Mayor

Has just recently found many funds

To re-hab this city landmark.

[... when you visit, be sure to sign-in; you'll

notice folks from all over the world; some,

quite "famous"]

At least once a month I will cycle up there

And peruse the shelves and grab

An arm-full of WW-2 books

(... besides the PICS and Bio's of

Ernie himself, the library specializes in all sorts of WW-2 histories & lit)

And then sit outside,

Under the favorite tree,

And read read read.

It's a genuine pleasure.

**Here's a VERY brief glimpse of this truly

Courageous, and quite talented writer:

____________________________________

"The American campaign against the Japanese on Okinawa still raged when a war correspondent new to the Pacific theater stepped ashore on Ie Shima, a small island just west of Okinawa. Traveling with a group of infantrymen, the reporter was killed by a sniper's machine-gun bullets. Saddened by their loss, the soldiers paid tribute to their fallen friend with a simple plaque reading: "At this spot, the 77th Infantry Division lost a Buddy, Ernie Pyle, 18 April 1945."

To the millions on the American home front during World War II, Ernie Pyle's column offered a foxhole view of the struggle as he reported on the life, and sometimes death, of the average soldier. When he died, Pyle's readership was worldwide, with his column appearing in 400 daily and 300 weekly newspapers.

---Extract from... "Indiana Historical Society"

___________________________________

[Blashy]

I'll just say know because of the scale of the game.

[Lars]

Originally posted by well-dressed gentleman:

What's a corps compared to that?

Umm, 120,000 to 1?

[Colin I]

I'm afraid scale of game doen't make it easy.

Clearly, HQ are identified with a name because here an individual was effective: Rommel etc. really took key decisions.

The whole point of Squad leader was it was on a resolution where individuals always matter.

The unit history seems to me the best level of identification in SC2 - certainly I get some pleasure from seeing how a unit sees the worst action and manages to keep fighting.

The main identification in SC2 is as a national leader - thats how WE choose to play the game.

Perhaps the sad thing about WWII is how meat grinders like Stalingrad destroyed individuality and made heroism futile (in the sense that a sniper killing 200 is an amazing achievement but stacked up with millions of dead its hard to see how it turned the tide). There is a film of Stalingrad (I forget who made it) where it becomes very hard to distinguish the characters from eachother - that I think was the point it was making - the soldiers were becoming dehumanised and losing their individuality.

[TFL]

Absolutely no. I understand the appeal to individuals in the game, or to have elite units that one could identify with, but that would be utterly unhistorical. Even Rambo could not really kill the whole vietnamese army just by himself even if he did so in the movie. Rambo from this forum might argue with this though .

Even the Generals and Marshalls were only as good as their surrounding men, as the HQ concept in the game presents. For example Eisenhower was known to be not the best the tactical or strategical commander, or maybe not even a moderate one. However he was extremely good at handling people, and that rightfully earned him the reputation as the best western allied commander there was, he's HQ was working best together. In practise the big decisions and plans were not done by one man, but a whole group of HQ personnel.

[Colin I]

Think there is a case for saying if a CEO is good he/she assembles a good team (sometimes more talanted than the CEO but its to his/her credit if this happens). Similarly with IKE or other staff that form an HQ.

But otherwise I agree completely.

[TaoJah]

The problem with heroes is that they're not real. Their status gets blow out of proportion, usually by people that never saw a real war or that live in a country that was never occupied by foreign forces.

Take -for example- that famous picture of soldiers putting up the flag op top of the Bundestag in Germany. Did you know that they had to fake that pîcture because in the original one, one soldier was wearing three watches, a clear indication that he was a thief ?

No, thanks, no "heroes" for me...

[jon_j_rambo]

@WDG --- Very nice post, rack 'em! Somebody send him a Camp Rambo T-Shirt for Christmas (Holiday Celebration for the non-believer).

@ToJo & the rest who no nothing of The Spirit --- Listen up, morale is everything. Heroes are real. Anybody for some Samson? There are miracles & wonders all the time. Daniel Boone, Paul Bunyon, Col. Travis, Davy Crockett, Audie Murphy, etc.

"Nuts" --- Yanks in the Bulge

"Remember the 50" --- Great Escape

"Goo-Gle, Goo-Gle" --- Sgt. York

Heroes are real, belief is most powerful.

[Liam]

Very creative, very nice, but in fact they are included in the game. When my luftflotte has 5 bars in 1944 you will not so much as ping it because Adolf Galland is leading and training his men to be Crack Pilots and literally takes no more than 10% damage and inflicts 30-50% every time it performs a mission. As far as giving the US and USSR heroes, that isn't so easy. They do not have the time nor minors to conquor to achieve this quite as easily but it still often happens. I have had a few Red and American victories enough to obtain experience, but Land Experience diminishes much too fast, Air experience matters as it is retained much much easier.

[SeaMonkey]

And to add to Liam's revelation, when my Panzers with HT 5 and four medals.....well heck just a couple at this point, cut through your forces like a hot knife in butter, remember Michael Whitmann was leading that heavy tank battalion in the assault.