Sombra Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Sc2 Pro & Contra Right now I have played or playing 8-10 MP games. There are many things I really like in SC2 and some I quite dislike. PRO: - Weather -Diplomacy -Production delay -Big Map -Fight for Egypt and the Med -The possibility for a successful sub war -Timer Negativ: - Hara-kiri, Bonsai and Kamikaze (The plunder System needs adjustment + please more free french) - Amphib. transports with long range - It takes a long time to sent a turn (PBEM moves are 1,4-2MB) - AI is helpless Neutral tendency negative: - Squares vs. hexes - Attackers seem to have to much of an advantage (esp. tanks are deadly) - Production tech is REALLY powerful - low catch up effect - No possibility to entrench troops while nation is not at war (Perhaps troops should start to entrench at 70-80%? - Defenders aka Norway are really weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Plunder system is/was already being revised. More free french, that's up to you, just change the % in the script from 20% to whatever you prefer, but I find it pretty good as so, they were not many free french and the scale of this game one unit represents ALOT. PBEM, use winrar and it makes them into 450k files. AI is a work in progress. Norway was really weak, sending 2 units to take it represents 100+k personel, remember the scale of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: Plunder system is/was already being revised. More free french, that's up to you, just change the % in the script from 20% to whatever you prefer, but I find it pretty good as so, they were not many free french and the scale of this game one unit represents ALOT. PBEM, use winrar and it makes them into 450k files. - more free french would free more MPs for GB to do something else then to guard against a Sealion. - PBEM isn´t the matter just an example problem is if you are playing over the internet. - My purpose is MP private changes to ones liking with the editor are usally rejected (people like to play teh offical game) - Yep, your Norway argumetn is convincing if I dont have to believe that Germany really sends a whole army to the invsaion. From the game point of view its at least for me a litle bit to easy to take Norway.. AI is a work in progress. Norway was really weak, sending 2 units to take it represents 100+k personel, remember the scale of the game. more free french would free more MPs for GB to do something else then to guard against a Sealion. - PBEM isn´t the matter just an example problem is if you are playing over the internet. - My purpose is MP private changes to ones liking with the editor are usally rejected (people like to play teh offical game) - Yep, your Norway argumetn is convincing if I dont have to believe that Germany really sends a whole army to the invsaion. From the game point of view its at least for me a litle bit to easy to take Norway.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 ... more free french would free more MPs for GB to do something else then to guard against a Sealion. Sombra, The following is a brief excerpt of a "research paper" that I prepared for Hubert awhile back. There is MUCH more, and I can elaborate, but this will give you an idea of the early disposition of "Free French" forces. As is, the 20% chance of any French forces surviving... is generous, but satisfactory. **Many other WW-2 GS games have struggled over this very question - how to fairly and historically represent the Free French... given the fact that Central Africa is not depicted on any of those game boards. Most, IMHO, didn't even do it as well as Hubert has done. Too, do you really want these exploits where French forces are moved willy-nilly around the map so they MIGHT become available to Allies? FACT is this: there was NO "Corps-sized" Free French until well into 1942, and that originated out of Central Afrika, and NOT Britain or USA or anywhere else. _________________________________________ On August 10, 1940, de Gaulle "commanded" an Army of: ~2,100 men, including 140 officers. On August 26, 1940 the French colony of CHAD (... the Capital, Fort Lamy, ever after became a sort of unofficial "base of Ops") declared loyalty to de Gaulle. Soon after (... August 29, 1940) French Equatorial Africa and the Cameroons followed suit. On October 27, 1940, de Gaulle made a speech in Brazzaville (...known as the "Brazzaville Declaration") in French controlled Congo (... west of Belgian Congo, and on the coast... part of "French West Africa), in which he "officially" set up what was later recognized as "The Free French Movement." On November 13, 1940, brigade-sized forces under de Gaulle and Leclerc captured GABON. December 2, 1940, Leclerc is appointed military commander of Fort Lamy. *Later, in March of 1941 LeClerc would gain world-wide renown and respect for the Free French cause by marching 1200 miles - from Fort Lamy on across the desert to capture Koufra, Libya from the Italians. He later joined Montgomery's forces in Tripoli. By the end of 1940, Free French controlled the following Colonies: 1) Chad, 2) French Equatorial Africa, 3) Cameroons, 4) Gabon, 5) Sudan, and 6) French Congo. Forces available for combat: Fr Equatorial Africa= 17,500 men + 15,000 native soldiers; Sudan: French Foreign Legion= ~1,000 soldiers. ___________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sombra Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 @ DesertDave I am not looking for a 100%historical game but for strategic game which is fun. IMHO free french would open new possibilies for the Allied players and the game would be better for it. Besides thanks a lot for the historical info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 @ DesertDave I am not looking for a 100%historical game but for strategic game which is fun. IMHO free french would open new possibilies for the Allied players and the game would be better for it. Besides thanks a lot for the historical info No problemo Senor Sombra. Thing is this... it is better, IMHO, to allow all sorts of "what-ifs" and yet... keep it within the REALM of "reasonable possiblility." Here is another portion of the report: ___________________________________________ Free French Forces at the end of 1941: UK= 1,150 Levant= 26,650 Libya= 5,200 French Equatorial Africa= 18,000 One Regiment each in Chad, Cameroons, Gabon and French Congo. Free French Forces at the end of 1942: Approximately 70,000, of which 15,000 were now in Libya fighting the Axis. ________________________________________ NOTE: From above you can see just how many "Free French" were in UK. Not too many. OK, much of the FUN of it all is in... those exceptional "variant events." :cool: You could use the Editor (...no Kuni, you don't HAVE to" LOL), and the "unit script" that is provided and precisely explained... to add a Free French Corps to arrive in Egypt perhaps? About the time it might be expected? Say, mid year 1942? Or, even earlier, to assist UK in conquest of Syria? (... though even there de Gaulle could ONLY muster 5,000 troops) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Well for a good year ALL UK did was protect their Island. I don't want UK to be able to do more than it was not capable of. Yes it won Africa, only because numbnuts Hitler never listened to his commanders. But Egypt was dead meat should the proper forces be sent. So it comes back to UK can't do much of ANYTHING, until is has amassed enough troops to either take Norway back or buy Bombers and bomb germany to oblivion and that can hurt alot, especially if you get long range and start to hit the mine and Berlion and another city (60mpp). Seems pretty historical to me. Without USA, UK would have been VERY late in doing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: Well for a good year ALL UK did was protect their Island. I don't want UK to be able to do more than it was not capable of. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Blashy, you constantly blame AH for everything. If it wasn't for that Bunta, BF won't be making money off this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: Blashy, you constantly blame AH for everything. If it wasn't for that Bunta, BF won't be making money off this game. HAHAHA, good one :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 -> Bump <- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Panzer Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 RE: Norway Not only was the Norweigan army small, spread out over a huge country, and completely lacking in any combat experience, but they sent out their mobilization orders BY MAIL when the German invasion fleet sailed. Two 3 point Norweigan corps sounds about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Some more material from the researched report, Cheese Panzer, Which, As we might suspect, Is ONLY as good as the one what'd done The time-consuming preparation, And ipso So, Take it for what it's perceived to be Worth: _________________________________________________ Free French Forces at the end of 1943: 4 FF Divisions in Italy + 3 Moroccan Divisions and 1 Algerian Division also there. By the end of the war, 100,000 Free French Forces would have fought in Italy. In North Africa, a total of 3 Infantry and 4 Armor Divisons. Free French Forces at the end of 1944: Alsace - 6 Infantry and 3 Armor Divisions (... de Lattre); Alps - 1 Inf Div; Atlantic - 1 Inf Division. At the time of D-Day, FF Forces numbered ~ 400,000. At the end of the war, roughly 550,000 men (... some place this figure at closer to one million; however, it must be recognized that half, more or less, of these were "jubilant joiners" who were not soldiers in the strict sense; rather, more akin to "rear echelon... happy helpers" Much of this late volunteerism was meant to show patriotism, IE, I was NOT a collaborator). The FF sent 8 divisions into GErmany in 1945. More details of combat by "the Fighting French:" On August 23, 1944 a FF Armored Division was 30 miles to SW of Paris; August 25, 1944 the "2nd French Armored Division" commanded by General Leclerc entered Paris, The day before, August 24, the Allies "preferred" commander, General Bilotte, entered Paris with a mechanized force. However, this typical attempt to keep de Gaulle "out of the lime-light" failed, for one good and simple reason... de Gaulle had landed in Normandy - first time back in France since defeat... on June 17, 1944, and eventually made his way to Paris on August 25th. He went to the Arch d' Triomphe and Notre Dame Cathedral and was greeted and acclaimed by the great majority of French Resistance leaders and citizens. The others, put forth by a still resentful FDR and Churchill, were totally ignored. De Gaulle had won. Not only for France, but assuring his OWN place in the liberation and eventual resurrection of "his ancient great nation." On August 15, 1944, a substantial force of Free French soldiers (... ~200,000) were part of the invasion and conquest of Marseilles and southern France, marching northeast through the Rhone River Valley. They were led by General de Lattre. At D-Day and beyond, the French Resistance (... still loyal to de Gaulle and the Cross of Lorraine) went into action, helping in terms of sabotage and information gathering, but also active in a military sense. The equivalent of a full battalion of well trained, and armed men fought the GErmans. ___________________________________________ Tra la. And these further excerpts Have omitted, entirely, The Free French Navy. That would take up LOTS more space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Panzer Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Must have been mighty small divisions. I just find it odd that when the Germans attacked at Kasserine Pass on the border between Tunisia and Algeria that none of those 70,000 Free French were involved. I'm not questioning the numbers, but the actual capability of the troops. And NO ONE enjoyed having to deal with DeGaulle. Save your breath on the FF navy, I got that one covered. Now, the Rubis, THERE was a real contributor to the Allied war effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think the contribution was small relatively if you add in Czechs and Poles and other freefighters in the valuable roles they filled you come up with something the Western Allies direly needed Manpower. Hell if Churchill could've saved Every Frenchmen along with the the Limeys in Calais Dunkirk D-Day may have come a bit earlier and the French may have been that more enthusiastic about supporting an anti-Axis coalition outside of their conquored nation with the UK. 100 thousand French is not out of the realm of possability, probably not more, maybe a half strength army or better yet a Free French Corps with a Bar and Half experience sent to the desert best place for it... that or Commando jobs best they really can get.. Fact is the brits were very very short on manpower the Germans were numerically superior to the Brits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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