AAR #2 - A3R Mod for SC2-WaW

[pzgndr]

The following playtest game was again hands-off AI-vs-AI on default difficulty settings. I pulled several screenshots of interesting points during the game. Enough to capture the overall feel of both side's actions.

Dec 39. Axis AI has taken Poland and executed an early attack in the west, taking Netherlands and preparing for Blitzkrieg into Belgium and France.

[pzgndr]

Jul 40. In an interesting twist, France DOW'd Belgium in April 1940. Germany surged through Belgium and Luxembourg and into France. Here Germany has crossed the Seine River and is pressuring Paris. France will surrender in late August. Lebanon-Syria become Free French.

In naval battles, UK has lost 2 fleets and Germany 1. I mention this because the AI's tend to engage in some aggressive behavior, which is risky and costly for both sides. You normally wouldn't do such things when playing against the AI on higher difficulty settings, and the AI will usually remain passive until there's naval activity to react to. Bottom line is MPPs are unnecessarily lost which affects later AI performance. More later.

[pzgndr]

Sep 41. Germany launched Barbarossa in June 1941 after taking Yugoslavia. Riga, Lvov and Kishinev have been captured, but the summer offensive has failed to capture Minsk or Kiev. This is fairly typical of these AI-AI playtest games, due to the naval aggression issue I mentioned previously. Also, on default difficulty settings the AI is not brilliant on the offense, for both sides. Here, Axis struggles to achieve historical gains. Later, Allies will have the same struggles. But the good news is that these AI scripts are working, and human players can expect some challenges when playing the computer opponent on higher difficulty settings.

[pzgndr]

Sep 41. Down in the desert, Axis is pushing into Egypt. Iraq did not have either a pro-Axis or pro-Allied coup, so UK DOW'd Iraq in August 1940 and has a couple of corps moving to take Baghdad.

[pzgndr]

Nov 42. Axis has made some solid gains in their summer '42 offensive. Although Smolensk and Rostov remain in Russian control, Russian land unit losses are up to 73 while German land unit losses are 24. Axis AI tends to advance slowly and deliberately, but advances nonetheless and Russia is bled white along the way. Axis may not achieve historical gains, but Russia isn't prepared to launch their historical steamroller counter-offensive either.

Start of this turn showed 4 U-boats active in the Atlantic, sinking about 70 MPPs. UK is up to 8 naval units lost and Germany only 2. Several UK losses are probably transports. Regardless, German Kriegsmarine has been active in this game and has the upper hand. It will take time for the Allies to recover.

[pzgndr]

Nov 42. Good news is UK is holding the line at El Alamein and ready to strike back against Libya. Bad news is Baghdad is still holding out against 2 UK corps. Having Lebanon-Syria as Free French has helped during this period. USA is moving transports to invade Morocco and Algeria.

[pzgndr]

Sep 43. Germany continues to press ahead during 1943. Here Germany holds Smolensk and Voronezh and launches attacks toward Moscow despite concentrations of Russians in the forests north of Smolensk. Like I said, the AI isn't brilliant on offense but makes up for it in other ways. Russian land unit losses up to 100 and Germans at 51; Russians starting to give as well as they're taking it.

Turkey activated as an Allied minor in July 1943, probably due to a lucky Allied diplomatic result. (Yes, the AI's can and will invest in diplomacy!) Turkey was leaning 31% Allied the month before and should not have triggered a coup variant, but a lucky result could have gotten up to above 90% for activation. Anyway, this is a lucky break for the Allies. Several German units have been diverted to Bulgaria to deal with this new front.

[pzgndr]

Sep 43. Italians continue to hold Libya. USA has cleared North Africa, taken Sicily and is preparing to invade Italy. Italy will surrender by November. U-boats in the Atlantic sank about 45 MPPs this past turn.

[pzgndr]

Aug 44. Interesting developments in southern Europe. Allies are pushing through Turkey into the Balkans. Italian campaign is at a

standstill. German AI garrisons are working better now, with panzers still holding Taranto and Albania.

[pzgndr]

Aug 44. Allied efforts in Italy and the Balkans haven't left much for D-Day. Allies have landed and liberated France and Luxembourg. Allied air power in England is a huge asset, but that will become more limited in the bad weather turns ahead. Note that German engineers have appeared as a game variant and fortifications have been built along the Oder River...

[pzgndr]

Aug 44. Russians have broken through the Crimea and are advancing toward Romania. Germans continue to hold Riga and Smolensk in the North, and the Voronezh-Kharkov-Riga line as shown here. Russian summer '44 offensive, like the German's Barbarossa and Fall Blau offensives earlier, is advancing slowly and deliberately. Note that Russians have received all infantry and armor research advances, so now 4-5 armor and 3-3 infantry are taking their toll.

[pzgndr]

Jun 45. Historically Germany would be surrendered by now. Allies are advancing, but slowly. Romania and Bulgaria continue to hold. Allies are building up in western Europe and advancing toward Berlin. Russians are lagging but still moving ahead. Germany will continue to hold out until the end of the game December 21, 1945, scoring an Axis Pyrhhic Victory.

In summary, playtesting AI versus AI at default difficulty settings results in somewhat sluggish Axis behavior in France and Russia (Barbarossa) and sluggish Allied behavior in the Middle East and Russia (1943-44). However, the AIs have proved to be capable. At the higher difficulty settings, the computer opponent should provide a decent challenge for solitaire play. And that is one of the primary goals of this project, to bring to life a Third Reich computer game with challenging AI. After release, it will be interesting to also assess game balance for two-player games. :cool:

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Two quick points:

The AI vs. AI option is a new & welcome option. I'd love to see the likes of Terif and Rambo craft some AIs and set them loose in a tournament or something.

The map scale seems about 75% larger than regular SC2-i.e. more room to manuever. Is this the case for the vanilla version as well?

[pzgndr]

Recall Edwin P's many AI suggestions over the years? Well he's been set loose with several other playtesters to ramp up the AIs for the default game. Players should find the AI a lot more more interesting in SC2-WaW... The default map is essentially the same as before but with addition of roads and railroads which create some new tactical considerations to deal with. Larger maps and more units increase computer processing time, so SC2-WaW retains the fast and fun gameplay as before.

I chose not to add roads and railroads to the plain old Third Reich map; too much clutter for my taste. Op moves are unrestricted but more expensive than default, and this seems to work fine. Others may change what I have done if they want. So far with this new SC2-WaW, I've been quite pleased how the mod plays now.

[Retributar]

Excellent Write-Up "pzgndr"!.

I am astonished at your reports of ramping up the 'AI' [ Coudo's to Edwin P.!]. He had an 'Unlimited Supply' of 'Out-Of-The-Box-Ideas!' . I hope to see 'much-much-more' of them!.

Im hoping that continuing 'AI' improvement will be an unending work project until it finally achieves at-least a level of being a challenging opponent for the majority of game-players!.

[targul]

Glad to see you avoided all the clutter of the roads and railroads. Better AI is always good and looks like the flavor and combat are very similiar to the original verison. I look forward to trying it with the new expansion especially with A3R.

[pzgndr]

Im hoping that continuing 'AI' improvement will be an unending work project until it finally achieves at-least a level of being a challenging opponent for the majority of game-players!.

I know some players swear that AIs are irrelevant and they will never bother with playing a computer opponent and they detest those who do and yada yada yada... But IRL with jobs, kids, pets, lack of time/space, and everything else, having a challenging computer opponent ready and willing to play whenever you are at the flip of an on/off switch is convenient.

Personally I am intrigued by the capabilities and limitations of AI performence. Since Day 1 when I first played SC and saw what Hubert had done with fuzzy logic and getting his AI to work reasonably well, I was hooked. Between his continued improvements in the generic AI and expansions of the event and AI scripts, the computer opponent can now be quite variable and challenging. And it is! And non-programmers can take these text scripts and create a challenging AI for their own custom games.

Let me say I was frustrated with the AI in my A3R mod in SC2. I am not frustrated right now. There are still a few minor AI performance issues I'd like to see resolved eventually, but for now I am satisfied with my AI-vs-AI playtesting. Between now and release I plan to get in a couple of complete games against the AI as Axis and Allies to verify things, but IMHO I think the AIs for both the default SC2-WaW campaigns and my mod are now at the level of being a challenging opponent. Players should not expect to win at Expert +2 difficulty levels any more.

[Honch]

Can't wait!

[PanzerMike]

Wow, your mod is looking very good. I have played a lot of Avalon Hill board games in the past (Firepower, Russian Front, etc.) and still have my share of General magazines. Never played A3R though (did play World in Flames).

I really like the scale of your mod. I do not own SC2 and have only recently taken my first look at the demo of the game. The scale of the vanilla campaign in SC2 is not to my liking. The map is too small, the number of units too low. That is one of the main reasons I have not ordered SC2/WaW yet.

However, your mod might change my mind. It really is looking fantastic. Do I understand correctly, that your mod can cope with WaW already?

[Sombra]

As I dont play to often against the aI. Some questions:

What exactly does the higher difficulty level do:

- Make tha AI

- give them more money

- Can the AI cheat and see all your units..

- Special combat rolls???

I would like to play against aclever aI but get the feeling for the game with settings similar to what a human player can do.

[pzgndr]

Do I understand correctly, that your mod can cope with WaW already?

PanzerMike, the SC2-WaW updated version of my mod is now posted at CMMODS. See my post in the mods forum below. Even without the game you can download one of the packages and review the Design Notes document, and then order SC2-WaW so you can play.

What exactly does the higher difficulty level do:

- Make tha AI

- give them more money

- Can the AI cheat and see all your units..

- Special combat rolls???

I would like to play against aclever aI but get the feeling for the game with settings similar to what a human player can do.

Sombra, the difficulty settings consist of two parts. Playing at Intermediate or Expert level gives the AI some more MPPs and few other favorable adjustments. Giving the AI extra Experience simply adds a bonus to its attack/defense calculations. AI scripting does allow for more specification for either Axis or Allies, and for difficulty level. Other than that, AI does not cheat or get any other special spotting bonuses, etc. It operates under the same FOW rules, and same intel spotting reports if its lucky.

I've added a few level-specific AI scripts. At Intermediate or Expert, there's a higher chance of Axis Sealion, invasion of Spain and/or invasion of Turkey, and of Allied invasions of Greece and/or Portugal/Spain. I had hoped that Intermediate +1.0 would be the sweet spot for playing against the AI, but my recommendation now is for Intermediate +1.5. AI is much better in SC2-WaW but still is not brilliant and continues to over-extend itself at times. But it will give you a good game! I know what's scripted but I still get surprised and have to scramble to react to something. It's not the same as playing a human opponent but still a decent challenge, and that was my goal. :cool:

[david12345]

How did you get the counters to look like that? I like it much better than the choices I see!

thanx

[pzgndr]

Customized military icons are included with the download. I did these myself using MS Paint. It really adds to the Advanced Third Reich experience, right down to unit names taken the old cardboard counters.