Marty Ward Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I'm still a novice at the game. What are the most important areas for Russia to research prior to entering the war? I have always focused on the basics, Infantry weapons, Tanks and, if I get lucky on the infantry weapons, Advanced Air. The problem is I get waxed when the Germans invade. I either don't hit my research because I don't invest enough or I don't have enough units to hold on for the first 2 years. Am I ignoring a very needed area of research For the Russians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Depends who you're playing. Bottom line: Infantry Weapons all the way at first. W/O it, you can fight. If you're opponent brings panzers, you'll need AT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 @ Marty Ward: Getting waxed in the initial stages is normal.. you cannot avoid that. JJR is right with his ideas, but Advanced Air is tricky. One thing you`ll need in the long run as Russia is Industrial Technology, esp. if you expect a long conflict. And production tech might help as well, because you will have to (re)buy a lot of units. Apart from that the Russians have a lot of units from start on.. Fighter, Tac Bomber and similar. It might make sense to research a bit here as well to make these units more than sparring partners.. What Russia does not need is Strategic Bombers, Long Range Aircraft and some of the other useless techs.. and Advanced Aircraft as well, their planes get slaughtered anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Ward Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 What about areas like Intelligence or Infrastructure? Also does it work out better to put say 4 chits into IW, even though only 2 will 'pay off', and take them back once you hit in order to increase your chances of getting to level 2 faster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Intelligence is stupid. LOL, love that irony. Infrastructure is okay, keeps those operands down, but proper management doesn't need much of this. It really depends on the action on the front. You gotta have IW+3. Then get with AT if panzers are in your country. After that, buy units. THIS IS EARLY in the war. Run, hide, & pray for snow/ice/mud. IT or tanks next. Forget about the air, until you have held the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Concerning Intelligence: it can make sense when you have a massive advantage.. 3 levels more than your opponent. I had a game were I researched Intel up to level 5 (had early hits and just wanted to see what happens).. and the effect was tremendous.. I could see almost every unit coming over ther atlantic.. and I was able to destroy a massive invasion force heading for Casablanca. But it`s very expensive, and it just makes sense if your opponent doesn`t research it... just like putting diplo chits into Spain. So it`s better to concentrate on other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Ward Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 Don't you also get a benefit/penalty to your research chance if your intel is at a diffrent level than the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Yes, you do. But you might as well just put the chit in the investment you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arado234 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 I tried hotseating intel.and found if you happen to have the units in place on the ground and say a H.Q.gets spotted you can then drop paras.and bomb it.Trouble is you never know when the intel. will hit. As far as spotting Allied trans,yes that could be a massacre(especially if you also get the intel.hits that expose all his escorts)Then you dont have to worry about any suprise encounters and just blow his trans.to bits. I think now intel.has much more importance than it did before but as far as Russia goes,there are to many other things to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 In WAW Package I cannot tell you... As for SC2 Vanilla... and probably applicable to WAW to a degree, IW first, AT second, Mobility would be very very nice for your Russians, since the mud can make them stick in it as bad as the Germans. The Russians cannot be as passive as some may think and win in the end...best the Reds focus their research in one area at a time. IT and Production is something important but don't neglect weapons tech.. Now there is an alternative, say for instance you get tank tech with luck and no Infantry tech, then build lots of tanks to begin with... or IW and not tanks, then swamp the field with armies #1 thing with the Reds are if you don't have the tech don't fight... wait until you get it, and usually by Summer of '42 you can delay the German advance with fodder units This way you will have all the techs you need, not totally neglecting IT and Production which should be at least 2 or 3 each by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Ward Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks all. Time to see if I can put these suggestions to good use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 @Marty --- Wouldn't hurt to invest in some prayer books too, because the Eastern Front is so busy there ain't time for body bags. Are there Christians in Europe or are you guys really done with it? Nobody cooler than this cat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FalfVLCK9A [ January 29, 2008, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottosmops Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 @ Rambo There are still a few Christians in Europe, but I'm done with it. :cool: Thanks to idiotic immigration policy, EU will be an Islamic republic in the future. :eek: BTW, I thought Maryland is in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua22 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 @John: Yes there are Christians left, not that many go to church every sunday though. But most of us are proud of our Christian- Humanistic heritage. Not going to church don't mean you're an atheïst. @ Otto: "Thanks to idiotic immigration policy.." I think your spot on here. Most of us are quite fed up with this left wing policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asgard Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Originally posted by Marty Ward: I'm still a novice at the game. What are the most important areas for Russia to research prior to entering the war? I have always focused on the basics, Infantry weapons, Tanks and, if I get lucky on the infantry weapons, Advanced Air. The problem is I get waxed when the Germans invade. I either don't hit my research because I don't invest enough or I don't have enough units to hold on for the first 2 years. Am I ignoring a very needed area of research For the Russians? Well I do not play as much as these guys, I played at most 20 games of WaW so far. The game is made hard, something which I do not like since I enjoy crushing the enemy. Even when holding France until March 41, the Germans would still be pumped on steroids. They receive so many units, that the war truly becomes dependent on the western allies opening a western front. As the russians you will have to play defensively. Yesterday I decided to play Fall Weiss(expert, no experience bonus), have not played for a while and came with a new strategy, hold France period. Once russia entered the war I sent all russians on offensive, despite taking some losses, the germans soon started to crumble. The war ended in winter 42. I enjoyed it! American troops hardly got involved(as time span did not allow it). I pulled it off and I'm sure I can do it again and again, perhaps not against human players but I can severely bleed them, considering that human players do not get countless free untis as the computer does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asgard Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 ps the historical german allies did not even enter the war, besides italy ofcourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 asgard, For reference if you are still holding France until March 1941, the German AI only receives a single bonus Corps (Munich) in the European Theatre of operations. It does receive a bonus force for Barbarossa, i.e. once the USSR is fully active, and for North Africa but I think I agree that these should only arrive if France has already surrendered. I will make this adjustment for the next patch. There are other bonuses once it holds Hungary and various positions in Russia but these would not have been triggered in the game you described above as Hungary/Yugoslavia scripts are only triggered once France surrenders and the Soviet scripts are only triggered once the German AI holds certain Soviet city positions etc., i.e. it still needs to achieve certain objectives before the bonuses kick in to help with anti-partisan duty and so on. Just an FYI that the unit bonuses for the AI are easily accessible via the Unit scripts and can in fact be disabled in game via the OPTIONS-> ADVANCED->SCRIPTS dialog to whatever you prefer. Either way good to hear the general AI is giving you a decent challenge from your usual crushing of the enemy Hope this helps, Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asgard Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Yes Hubert I know about the script options, but I wouldn't want to handicapt the AI, I'm sure there is a reason why you did this, I'm sure you and the crew gave much thought and evaluation when making the game. What bugs me is the favortism in weather when things go wrong for germans, nice sunny winter if france does not fall in summer? The germans have so many planes when they attack russia, it forces a defensive play until a second front is opened. And personally I like to do some offensive not just absorb their attacks. If france falls russians are in no position(zero chance) to hold the germans until the wehrmacht reaches the historical front line. However I found a way out of this, I can hold france(without being near submission) until russia joins and double team germany. None of german historical allies join the axis, however oddly enough(favortism again) turkey goes from 0 to 100% german ally? Annoying and unrealistic! Germany facing a double front and Turkey joins the axis bandwagon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyazinth von Strachwitz Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 @ asgard: that Turkey issue is a script event as well... to make it more difficult for the human player and help the AI. It isn`t historical, but it is well for the game balance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Correct the Turkey script is only for some variance from game to game and is only triggered 10% of the time. I have made an adjustment though that will have it check to make sure at least France has surrendered, i.e. similar to the other changes I proposed above. For the weather, this is actually entirely random and no specific advantage given to either side as you suspected. There was a similar debate where during testing it was thought that Axis subs were given a diving advantage and all I can say luck is luck, sometimes bad or good, and since the code has been moved to be much more generic these variables are now fully dependant on the values entered via the Editor. This ensures it works the same for the default campaigns as well as for customized ones. All that being said I do have some bad news to report. I don't think you will like the changes coming along in the next patch... well it couldn't be avoided and unfortuantely the AI has been improved yet again Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asgard Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: Correct the Turkey script is only for some variance from game to game and is only triggered 10% of the time. I have made an adjustment though that will have it check to make sure at least France has surrendered, i.e. similar to the other changes I proposed above. For the weather, this is actually entirely random and no specific advantage given to either side as you suspected. There was a similar debate where during testing it was thought that Axis subs were given a diving advantage and all I can say luck is luck, sometimes bad or good, and since the code has been moved to be much more generic these variables are now fully dependant on the values entered via the Editor. This ensures it works the same for the default campaigns as well as for customized ones. All that being said I do have some bad news to report. I don't think you will like the changes coming along in the next patch... well it couldn't be avoided and unfortuantely the AI has been improved yet again Hubert I did give it thought that is natural for anyone to notice the unfavorbale events when things are not going their way. I did however wanted to hear it from you that the weather patterns are just that random. Your word is good enough for me. Now whatever the changes, if it's only behavior I don't think the AI can snatch france from me. A human player yes, and I cannot see the AI ever behaving like a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The AI improvements have mostly to do with improved Air attack sequences (Strat Bombers now go after cities much more than before etc.) as well as tweaks to the retreat of special unit types such as HQs, Air, Anti-Tank, Anti-Air etc. Might not be good enough to take France from you but you should notice some overall improvements nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua22 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 There will be a "retreat" function? But only for special units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Just to clarify... I was referring to how the AI handled its own retreat of units, i.e. similar to how a human player would in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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