SMG42 Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 I don't see him in the list of German HQ! If one must be there, its him (along with Manstein) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Go back and read all the discussions on the leaderfiles. Ive argued in vain for Rokossovsky but to no avail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonslayer Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Now you can simply add them yourselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Moonslayer: Now you can simply add them yourselves! Congrats! You are the FIRST in this to use the editor-arguement. YOu win a free smack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Yes and IF Hubert added in EVERY request, the game would not be released for another year or two. So he creates an editor and you can make the game to YOUR liking. But that's a problem for Kuniworth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: Yes and IF Hubert added in EVERY request, the game would not be released for another year or two. So he creates an editor and you can make the game to YOUR liking. But that's a problem for Kuniworth. No what bothers me is that you playtesters never pointed this under the development phase. I had a big debate with you back then where you never even would consider my arguments but defended the faulty leaderfile from SC1. It was not until Hubert stepped up and said he might alter it(which he did in some ways) that you shut up. Smg 42 is correct in one aspect. How can you Blashy motivate the absence of Guderian but presence of Chuikov? Answer that Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 But hey you can still repent, maybe you can talk to Hubert and make him sneak in a few missing ones to patch 1. [ April 22, 2006, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Kuniworth ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concord Dan Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 WOW In LESS time than it took you to post about missing leaders, you could have added them yourself. The editor is really, really simple to use. Everyone should at least try it. The AI scripts are separate from the editor and a little harder to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Hey Concord Dan, I really like your suggestions on a debate thats been going on for 2,5 years about getting the standard scenarios right. Please go back and read it before throwing this "you are an anti-editor war-monger" crap. Oh if its so easy for me why couldnt the dev team do it. Rokossovsky is a top 10 WW2 general on the front/army group scale but he did not make the cut. If I would get an explanation for it I would accept the decision. But since no really good arguments are presented this makes it even more puzzling. But I guess the reason for not including certain well known generals is not to have too many high ranking officers for a certain country so it changes the balance off the game. THat is a valid point, however I would not make the choices made in this model(why include german general Weiss for example?) Either that's the explanation or it's plain laziness. So Bill M or Dave M, third recih enthusiasts and playtesters...I always here you talk about playing wargames...here is a question; Do you think the leaderfile could be improved to a later patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gérard Le Poer Trench Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 the simple reason would be that Guderain was a general not a field Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Gérard Le Poer Trench: the simple reason would be that Guderain was a general not a field Marshall If that was true why are other generals(not field marshals) included? And why are some vital field marshals missing? The truth is that its no logic to the leaderfile at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliva2003 Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Guderian did not command any ArmiesGroup in the War ( at the end of it, he was in the OKH but not commanding in the battlefield a group of armies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concord Dan Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 LOL You have been discussing this issue for 2.5 years? What a colossal waste of time. The strength of the game is the editor and ease of modding. A reason for leaving a simple leader out is to encourage players to explore the editor. Don’t like Weiss change his name to Kuniworth. A question for you, why are you trying to force your opinion on the rest of the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by oliva2003: Guderian did not command any ArmiesGroup in the War ( at the end of it, he was in the OKH but not commanding in the battlefield a group of armies) So? Neither was Chuikov but he is included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliva2003 Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 And the Soviet Marshall Vasilesvky too. He was the STAVKA´s Chief( Soviet Army Major State) the majority of the war ( after Zhukov) and the creator of Urano´s Counter ( Zhukov commanded it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Concord Dan: LOL You have been discussing this issue for 2.5 years? What a colossal waste of time. The strength of the game is the editor and ease of modding. A reason for leaving a simple leader out is to encourage players to explore the editor. Don’t like Weiss change his name to Kuniworth. A question for you, why are you trying to force your opinion on the rest of the players? Im not, I'm trying to alter the original scenarios to make them more historical correct(AND to make some logic sense) as those are the ones most played for the tcp/ip guys over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concord Dan Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Another explanation is to view the HQ as command infrastructure. The German 9 HQ is labeled Manstein. It could be that this represents top leadership/effort. So, a different label could be 'Manstein/Guderian' or 'Command Effort A' The Weiss group would then represent 'Command Effort D' etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 IMHO, I doubt the default scenario will be the one played 1 year from now, why? Same thing as SC1, people will find loopholes that need adjusting and can be done through the editor and will be done so no house rules are required and yes I am 100% sure this game can be played without any house rules, even at this stage prior to a first patch. Anyways, 1000s of people compared to a handfull of beta testers will come out with stuff we have not seen or discovered or even thought of doing and some of these might require adjustments, hence changing the default campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Originally posted by Concord Dan: Another explanation is to view the HQ as command infrastructure. The German 9 HQ is labeled Manstein. It could be that this represents top leadership/effort. So, a different label could be 'Manstein/Guderian' or 'Command Effort A' The Weiss group would then represent 'Command Effort D' etc Yes this is the most reasonable explanation, but it still have flaws. Why Rommel, Kesselring, Manstein, Model but no Guderian? Why Chuikov but no Rokossovsky? etc etc Anyway we view this it will be flaws because it's not logic. And if it shall remain with no logic why not include Guderian has SMG 42 urged for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Why not just fix it right? Why such an attitude against the Truth? Then these clowns defend laziness, what a joke...just like politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concord Dan Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 From the Manual - "HEADQUARTERS Generally a strategic unit that provides leadership and logistical support to subordinate units, a Headquarters (HQ) unit might be as large as a Corpssized unit – containing reserves and combat support elements to support major operations – or smaller and more mobile such as those deployed by both sides to North Africa." It does not represent a SINGLE leader or his abilities. Hubert should have just given the HQ labels like 'Army Group B' etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 DannyBoy --- That's a good idea, take your editor & make everything nameless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 by the way, you're member #2590, with 12 posts, and this is how you come out? LOL, what a stand Are you Blashy's pet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Dave Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Why not just fix it right? Why such an attitude against the Truth? Then these clowns defend laziness, what a joke...just like politicians. Who you callin' Clown? LOL, Ah, Enfant Terrible, Is there no end To your feckless renown? Here's a picture puzzle for you [... since, lazing, you ain't playin' Terif as yet, as promised] Can you? Tell me who painted the clown Depicted below? Do that within 5 minutes! From now! And I will straighten out ALL the World's Many senseless messes, INCLUDING! Whatever! It IS... that yer currently complaining ABOUT. Not sure just what that IS, But... I'll giv it the old SC College try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuniworth Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 Desert Dave; in the minutes it took you to find that picasso you could have sent an email to Hubert urging for a patched leaderfile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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