Jeff Gilbert Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 No complaint, just a spot to pose the "why" questions we will all have. My 1st question [this is NOT a complaint] is: In reading the Manual - Operational Movement section, I see that a unit that moves operationally can expect a 25-40% morale loss. I am curious as to the train of thought on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Being stacked like sardines in a train would be one that would affect my morale, lol. I'll let Hubert answer the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Think it should be theater specific. 25-40% loss for getting sent to the Eastern Front. 25-40% gain for getting sent to France. Ooh la la, cherchez la femmes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 The basic idea behind this was to exact some sort of penalty when you quickly moved around units from one area of the map to another. For example, in SC1 there was a complaint how it was unrealistic for units on the Eastern front to be shipped off to France and be in top immediate fighting form. Essentially this simulates the necessary loss in Readiness and Morale is used simply due to the way it works in the Readiness formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by Lars: Think it should be theater specific. 25-40% loss for getting sent to the Eastern Front. 25-40% gain for getting sent to France. Ooh la la, cherchez la femmes... A train ride one way or the other is hard on morale. Any type of long transport is hard on morale because most of it was done in so so conditions, meaning packed like sardines for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Agreed. Operanding every unit you had instantly was/is powerful option if used at the right time. 3R had a cap on how many units per turn which could be redeployed (operand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 You'll have a cap in this game, it's called limited MPPs. Gone are the days of MPP galore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justanotherwargamer Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Morale loss is a loss of cohesion (if I read in to it properly). Frankly, being switched from the Russian front, into Southern France, 1943, should raise a unit's morale But, as I think was stated, although not the same way, taking a military formation, uprooting it, shipping it a long distance, and then expecting it to retain cohesion, is asking a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by Blashy: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lars: Think it should be theater specific. 25-40% loss for getting sent to the Eastern Front. 25-40% gain for getting sent to France. Ooh la la, cherchez la femmes... A train ride one way or the other is hard on morale. Any type of long transport is hard on morale because most of it was done in so so conditions, meaning packed like sardines for the most part. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted April 6, 2006 Share Posted April 6, 2006 Transport of troops from Russia to France should always reduce readiness. Long trip in a train full of guys...U set a foot in France soil u wanna get some hot action and not shooting with the MP40 precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellraiser Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Yeah, next thing in a future patch would be modding the toillete sex ... imagine how the morale would skyrocket ... but the fatigue ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 I've recently been reading Raus's book Panzer Operations and he describes 6 Pz Div's rail move from France to Russia in 1942, as part of the relief effort for Stalingrad. Since Raus and 6 Pz had previously fought in Russia as part of 4 Pz Army during Barbarossa, he knew what to expect. Troops and equipment moved on the trains task organized, armed, and ready to fight. Not only did they fight off partisan attacks enroute, they pretty much rolled off the trains and moved into combat immediately. This was pretty impressive. And probably exceptional. However, these were accounts of just a few of many trains needed to move just one division. Op moving whole corps and armies at the SC2 scale requires many many trains over several weeks, so a decrease in unit readiness simply reflects the time it takes to reorganize and restore full combat power at the distant destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exel Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Operating units long distances should definitely reduce readiness - for one or two turns. I don't know how the Readiness & Morale system works, so pardon me if I'm being ignorant - if they are inseparably connected then I can understand the effect on morale as well (as artificial as it may sound). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrognardFortyPlus Posted April 7, 2006 Share Posted April 7, 2006 Morale is more than just "morale". It also represents unit cohesivness. This is very similar to the way Clash of Steel operated, which I have said on many occassions is a very good model. COS even had the morale hit when dumping a unit using strategic movement. Again a nice model reflecting the loss of combat effectivness following strategic positioning. It's nice to see SC2 implementing those concepts. Not becasue COS had them, but simply because the concept is a solid model representing what happens at the strategic level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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