Captain Wacky Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 What I mean is, is hull down a set reduction in to hit percentage or does it vary depending on the degree of hull down? For instance, if a tank is behind a stone wall (1m high) which does not cover all the hull, does it have a worse hull down status than say a tank only whose turret is showing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 yes, it's either hull down or not, there are (unfortunately) no grey shades inbetween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Heh - can of worms on standby... Okay, if it is a black and white thing (which I agree it probably is) how can AFV's with the gun in the hull still fire from hull down? I'm talking about all those tank destroyers & assault guns without a superstructure rating BTW, and they are the majority. *Throws can and ducks for cover* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Rex_Bellator: Heh - can of worms on standby... Okay, if it is a black and white thing (which I agree it probably is) how can AFV's with the gun in the hull still fire from hull down? I'm talking about all those tank destroyers & assault guns without a superstructure rating BTW, and they are the majority. *Throws can and ducks for cover*<hr></blockquote> IT is black and white Hull down is either 1 or 0, on or off. Basically in the game hull down status means that a tank should not take a hit to the lower hull aspect of the armour. This means the tank has better survivability because it is harder to hit, with only its "top half" exposed. This means a tank, if hit, will take a hit to the turret or upper hull. I hope that helps. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Gotcha, so it's not really 'Hull Down' it is actually 'Lower Hull Down'. I always wondered, cheers Tom Edit - Damn, just as I thought I'd found the answer! Can anyone actually remember a tank being hit on the Upper Hull while being in 'Hull Down' mode? I can't in all my CMBO gaming. I feel a test coming on.... [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Rex_Bellator ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Bellator Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Yay! Tom has it. As I mentioned I never noticed Upper Hull hits on 'Hull Down' vehicles so I did a test. Half a dozen long range Stuarts plinked away forever at some Hull Down and out of ammo Tigers, JpzIVs and Stugs. There were upper hull hits galore, along with superstructure and turret hits and slightly worryingly incessant gun hits. So we have an answer, Hull Down is black and white, and it is really only 'Lower Hull Down'. Of course we now have another question - Why don't turreted AFV's have the intelligence to show only their turrets instead of the Upper Hull as well ? [ 01-07-2002: Message edited by: Rex_Bellator ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 Am I correct in assuming that every vehicle in CM can acheive "hull down" status and get that bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Smith Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 I have another question about hull down. Is a tank either hull down or not (i.e. on or off, 0 or 1), or is a tank either hull down or not RELATIVE TO A LOCATION ON THE MAP? For example: imagine a tank being hull down behind a rise in the ground, that is overlooking a valley in front of it. That tank may be hull down relative to opponents down in the valley, but NOT hull down relative to opponents on the slope on the opposite side of the valley-they may even be higher than that tank, and be able to get 'top' shots! My guess is that in CM a tank is checked to see if it is right behind a high point in the terrain (rise in the ground, wall, etc), and is thus either hull down or not (0 or 1), and is considered hull down for the purposes of any firer from its frontal arc (which is incorrect, of course). But I've always wondered how the game actually does it. steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Stephen Smith: I have another question about hull down. Is a tank either hull down or not (i.e. on or off, 0 or 1), or is a tank either hull down or not RELATIVE TO A LOCATION ON THE MAP? For example: imagine a tank being hull down behind a rise in the ground, that is overlooking a valley in front of it. That tank may be hull down relative to opponents down in the valley, but NOT hull down relative to opponents on the slope on the opposite side of the valley-they may even be higher than that tank, and be able to get 'top' shots! My guess is that in CM a tank is checked to see if it is right behind a high point in the terrain (rise in the ground, wall, etc), and is thus either hull down or not (0 or 1), and is considered hull down for the purposes of any firer from its frontal arc (which is incorrect, of course). But I've always wondered how the game actually does it. steve<hr></blockquote> Tanks are hull down relative to their position of others. I've been able to pierce the upper frontal armor of a Hetzer who was hull down to everyone else but not my TD on top of a big hill. The extreme angle of my tank's round hitting his 60/60 armor pierced through because the degree of slope was completely changed by my position relative to his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Colonel_Deadmarsh: Am I correct in assuming that every vehicle in CM can acheive "hull down" status and get that bonus?<hr></blockquote> Everything except Jeeps and Trucks, I think. Even pillboxes can be hulldown. - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Hull down status should, in principle, be measured against the location (e.g. center of pivot) of an enemy gun, be it a gun in the turret of a tank or a AT gun. "Hull Down" with respect to this gun would then indicate that this particular gun is currently unable to hit the (lower) hull of the considered tank. It should be very possible for CM to calculate exactly how much of each (vertical) section of a tank is exposed to a gun. If the exposure of the (lower) hull is 0% than the tank will receive the hull down label. It depends on the sophistication of this calculation whether it gives reliable results even for extreme conditions, that is, for example, extreme tank orientations. Personally, I would not bother with extreme cases and treat the tank as being perfectly upright in the calculation. The tank simplifies to a stadia rod under this condition, and to calculate how much of this rod is visible to the gun is a fairly straightforward process. Regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 Originally posted by Wolfe: Even pillboxes can be hulldown. Since they are treated as vehicles by the game engine. An interesting question: can they fire the gun if they are "hull down" since they have no turret ? If they are immobile Stugs then being hull down is not really a good thing since it rarely happens and they are more likely to be spotted but they can not fire than they being able to fire back at the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tero: An interesting question: can they fire the gun if they are "hull down" since they have no turret ? If they are immobile Stugs then being hull down is not really a good thing since it rarely happens and they are more likely to be spotted but they can not fire than they being able to fire back at the enemy.<hr></blockquote>From what I have read the gun is in the unobscured upper hull while the lower hull is unexposed. Therefore, a hull-down tank-destroyer can engage the target it is hull-down to. Regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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