3 observations

[deilthedog]

i purchased CM2 yesterday.

1- im a bit disapointed with the mission briefings that come woth the game. they seem a bit lightweight compared to CMBO.

2- on the stalingrad operation im having extreme slow downs. when i bought medieval total war i had the same problems but after some tweaking it improved. anybody got advice on things i can try?

2- in the siberian devils operation the battle is 25 turns and for all those turns the AI never attacked. in the second battle they deployed all their troops practically right on top of me.

is this a bug or is it normal behavior?

[jiggles]

Originally posted by deilthedog:

i purchased CM2 yesterday.

1- im a bit disapointed with the mission briefings that come woth the game. they seem a bit lightweight compared to CMBO.

The thing which slightly disappoints me about the briefings is that a number are predictably misleading.

SLIGHT SPOILER:

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For example, when the briefing says something like "you have a dozen IS-2s and half-a-dozen T34/85s, expect only light resistance", then I find it's foggy... well I know I should pack some tasty fish snacks. Heeeeeere kitty kitty.

(Still can't win though!).

[Pak40]

Originally posted by deilthedog:

i purchased CM2 yesterday.

1- im a bit disapointed with the mission briefings that come woth the game. they seem a bit lightweight compared to CMBO.

Well, they're basically the same as in CMBO, so I don't see how that makes them lightweight.

Originally posted by deilthedog:

2- on the stalingrad operation im having extreme slow downs. when i bought medieval total war i had the same problems but after some tweaking it improved. anybody got advice on things i can try?

What do you mean by extreme slow downs? Is it only during stalingrad operation? Do you play Neverwinter Nights? If so, there is a memory leak associated with that game that makes Combat Mission and other 3D games slow to a crawl. Rebooting seems to be the only solution.

Originally posted by deilthedog:

2- in the siberian devils operation the battle is 25 turns and for all those turns the AI never attacked. in the second battle they deployed all their troops practically right on top of me.

is this a bug or is it normal behavior?

Which side were you playing in the Siberian Devils OP?

[WWB]

1) They are a bit lighter than CMBO, but all necessary information is there.

2) That op slows any computer to a crawl. Get a cray.

3) What you saw is the setup zone behavior and a 0m No Man's Land.

WWB

[Sigurd]

wwb, what do you mean by your 3rd remark, about setup zone and 0m no man's land ? what's the rrlation with the AI inactivity ?

[Warlord69]

Its not really AI inactivity that is the problem.

SPOILER

I thing Berli made that map, and I think he designed it for head to head play, not with the AI attacking the human player. Otherwise he would have placed the soviet troops closer to that ridgeline, so the action would start sooner.

[deilthedog]

1- whats a cray?

2- about the briefings, there just seems to be a lot more detail in the majority of the BO missions, especially the downloaded ones.

overall the game feels more like an expansion disc that a sequel. i dont see too many changes. all i see is another theatre which to me couldve been an expansion disc

[ScouseJedi]

1 cray was a supercomputer in 80 - 90s

Dont know if they are still cutting edge - think HAL9000 and you get the idea.

Have you played CMBB much yet. While I have never played CMBO I have read a lot of AAR's and if you employed the same tactics used there you would have been cut to pieces.

Many of the changes on CMBB are ' under the bonnet' (US = hood) in terms of accuracy and AI.

[WWB]

What I mean is that in operations the computer redraws the setup zones between fights. If the No Man's Land is set to 0 then troops can begin right next to each other.

I think the briefings are adequate, and we were under orders to keep them short anyhow. If you make a scenario, you can write in the entirety of a Tale of Two Cities if you so choose.

CMBB is a far different game at heart. Try those re-made The Last Defense and Reisberg battles floating about. They really show the diffrence nicely.

WWB

[Neutral Party]

I just wish that some of the briefings would be a bit more realistic and say "you're going to run into a ****load of enemy troops who will have better tanks than you've got" instead of the ubiquitous "expect no/light resistance".

Joe

[Cameroon]

Originally posted by deilthedog:

overall the game feels more like an expansion disc that a sequel. i dont see too many changes. all i see is another theatre which to me couldve been an expansion disc

I mean no disrespect, I'm simply surprised that you feel this way. I, for one, have been thrilled with the improvements. My gameplay in CMBB does not feel much like my gameplay in CMBO.

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by deilthedog:

overall the game feels more like an expansion disc that a sequel. i dont see too many changes. all i see is another theatre which to me couldve been an expansion disc

In the same vein that Quake were Quake II were expansion packs

Even if BTS had just done this as an expansion pack (ie no gameplay changes, no code changes, no new & revamped grahics engine, no new terrain) they would still need new units (and if we're talking expansion disk price that means 1 new soldier, 1 new medium tank, 1 new heavy tanks, 1 new SPG and that's it), new TOEs, new terrain info, new organisational info, etc. So BTS would be faced with spending a lot of time they would not get back in income (not to mention that it would have to be limited to download-only to limit cost price).

So if that's what you think is enough to represent the entire war on the eastern front, then yes it could have been just an expansion disk. And it could have been released 6 months after CMBO to boot!

btw: In a way you are right, this is basically "just another theatre" and an engine rewrite is in the works.. coming to a game store near you in several years from now!

[ October 20, 2002, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Foxbat ]

[Captain Wacky]

Originally posted by Cameroon:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by deilthedog:

overall the game feels more like an expansion disc that a sequel. i dont see too many changes. all i see is another theatre which to me couldve been an expansion disc

I mean no disrespect, I'm simply surprised that you feel this way. I, for one, have been thrilled with the improvements. My gameplay in CMBB does not feel much like my gameplay in CMBO.</font>

[Foxbat]

Originally posted by Captain Wacky:

I think some people think this because CMBB looks the same as CMBO.

Funny you should mention that, I have just made a screenshot of what CMBO: The Easter War would look like.

German forces defend the village of Krasnoarmeets against an attack by unsupported T-34s

- Apologies to Capt Wacky for stealing his gag

But you know what they say: imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[ October 20, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Foxbat ]

[Captain Wacky]

Post a pic from a modded CMBO game. CMBB doesn't look too much different.

[Foxbat]

Captain, I actually took some pains to remove some of the modding to make my point

With the eastern front being launched as a scenario disk there wouldn't much budget for eyecandy, such as "mods" (or enhanced graphics as they would be called if BTS made them)

Also note the nature of the terrain and the 3D models used for the tanks..

Oh and yes I know your jokes are funnier, but I just couldn't resist.

[ October 20, 2002, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Foxbat ]

[Michael Emrys]

Deilthedog, the thing I don't get is, if you think CMBB is "just" an expansion disk, what would your idea of a non-expansion disk be? What is it you want that you don't feel like you are getting? I admit I can't figure it out from anything you've posted yet.

Michael

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Deilthedog, the thing I don't get is, if you think CMBB is "just" an expansion disk, what would your idea of a non-expansion disk be? What is it you want that you don't feel like you are getting? I admit I can't figure it out from anything you've posted yet.

Michael

Yeah, what he said. I just talked to Justin about this over a beer, and we both agree that CMBB is a whole different kettle of fish than CMBO. Try charging a machine-gun, and then come back and tell us it is the same game

Regarding the briefings - you will notice a certain standardisation of them. I did not like it at first, but I must say it is a vast improvement over the rambling stories that you get with some scenarios, telling you about the love-life of the commanding officer, and what he had for breakfast.

They do the job - they are reasonably realistic in style. Dry and to the point, but then again, no military has a specific liking for those who think the pen is mightier than the sword.

[citizen]

Originally posted by deilthedog:

in the siberian devils operation the battle is 25 turns and for all those turns the AI never attacked. in the second battle they deployed all their troops practically right on top of me.

is this a bug or is it normal behavior?

The problem with the Siberian Devils Operation is that the map is set up so the attack comes diagonally from NE to SW instead of the normal east-west or north-south. After the first battle, the computer draws the setup zones for the next battle, but it has no idea that the map is set up for a diagonal attack. So it draws the line straight across the map, suddenly turning the entire Operation into a north-south fight. Doing so gets the Russians into the town "for free" at the start of battle 2, even if they are nowhere near the town at the end of battle 1.

It's a shame that none of the playtesters mentioned this problem (assuming it was playtested), cuz it ruined the Op for me and a buddy who've been PBEMing it for the past 3 weeks.

Note also that the Russian troops retreat due north and the Germans due south, despite the map's orientation. Leads to massive slaughter when men exit their cover to advance and don't return to said cover when they rout. Instead they move perpendicular to the fire and get butchered.

The Op was set by the original designer to 0 meter No Man's Land, but that it not the problem. The problem is in the line drawing.

Scenario designers take note! Until BTS fixes this or gets rid of lines, don't make Ops with diagonal maps. And you might want to avoid making battles with diagonal maps on account of the retreat pathing.

citizen