ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I think I've found a bug concerning PBEM play. I just started a PBEM with Andreas. I recieved the setup file (...1.txt), bought my troops and sent back the file (...2.txt). He sent me the next file (...3.txt) but I by mistake opened the wrong file, the one I sent to him (...2.txt). I didn't notice it and entered MY password and was pretty confused to see russian forces instead of my german ones. I thought maybe we had chosen the SAME password, so I quit, loaded the file again and when prompted for the PW I just hit 'enter'. Again it worked, showing me all his forces. I think this is a serious bug that should be fixed immediatly since it enables cheating. edit: Found something new. It looks like when prompted for the PW and you simply press 'enter' the PW routine seems to break, allowing you to see your opponent's file. I just checked it with another PBEM (against Berlichtingen, loaded one of 'his' files and simply hit 'enter', and voilá, I could see all his forces... So, either this is a BIG bug or both weren't using PWs at all, which I higly doubt... [ September 23, 2002, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: I think I've found a bug concerning PBEM play. I just started a PBEM with Andreas. I recieved the setup file (...1.txt), bought my troops and sent back the file (...2.txt). He sent me the next file (...3.txt) but I by mistake opened the wrong file, the one I sent to him (...2.txt). I didn't notice it and entered MY password and was pretty confused to see russian forces instead of my german ones. I thought maybe we had chosen the SAME password, so I quit, loaded the file again and when prompted for the PW I just hit 'enter'. Again it worked, showing me all his forces. I think this is a serious bug that should be fixed immediatly since it enables cheating.how could somehting like this possibly get through testing? blows my mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 OK, everybody stay calm. Andreas just mailed me that he didn't use a pw in this game. If Berli did the same, then everything's fine. Never thought that people wouldn't use PWs... update: seems like Andreas could open my (password protected) setup file typing anything he liked. So it looks like there is something wrong here. [ September 23, 2002, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I have not been able to replicate this issue but please MAKE SURE your opponents are using passwords. Many of the beta testers got into the habit of not using passwords while testing as it was easier for us to check reported issues. Both your opponents were testers. Ask them if they used passwords or not. Now with the first issue (setup file) there is nothing really we can do. When you send that setup file to your opponent it is awaiting an initial password from him so anything you type (including just hitting enter) will be the new password if you mistakenly open it youself. You could cheat this way and see all your opponents units, but its always been like that. I ran a test where I played myself in a PBEM and each side had unique passwords. I could not open up either sides files without the correct password. If you see something different then email me directly and we can test this further. What language versions are you guys all using by the way? I wonder if mixed language versions (each player on a different version) could be screwing something up? Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkao Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Same thing happened to me, although I dont know if my opponent had put a password... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Ok, since both Andreas and Berli are beta testers it's well possible that both didn't use PWs. Andreas already told me he didn't use one. But still, the ability to open your opponent's setup-file is IMO a serious opportunity to cheat. A gentlemen's agreement not to use this bug is fine but I guess a lot of suspicion will arise from that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: Ok, since both Andreas and Berli are beta testers it's well possible that both didn't use PWs. Andreas already told me he didn't use one. But still, the ability to open your opponent's setup-file is IMO a serious opportunity to cheat. A gentlemen's agreement not to use this bug is fine but I guess a lot of suspicion will arise from that one.Its not a bug Parabellum. There is no way we can password protect a file that your opponent hasnt had the chance to look at or issue a password FOR yet. As I said, this is the same as in CMBO. Its just the way the game works. Any other method would add at least yet another step to the PBEM process. I agree, it IS a way to cheat, so dont do it and play people who you can trust. Even if someone does cheat and see's your force makeup, they still do not know WHERE you will position your troops or how you will use them. Madmatt [ September 23, 2002, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Madmatt ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Thx for the fast answers, Madmatt. I understand that it's a problem with how the system works. In fact it's no big deal for me since I usually know they guys I'm playing and trust them. But I really would rather see another step for the process in order to be 'safe' than to rely on others not to exploit it. Think about tourneys or ladder games. I guess that in such 'competetive environments' the appeal to cheat might be quite high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 UPDATE: Working on the other password issue reported above and I think I see something. Not sure if its a German version to English version or Mac to PC PBEM bug but whatever it is we will find it and fix it. Once the dismembered brain in the jar that is Charles awakens I am sure he will get it squared away quickly. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 It would be worth it to add one step to the startup process of a PBEM to avoid this cheating opportunity, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: Thx for the fast answers, Madmatt. I understand that it's a problem with how the system works. In fact it's no big deal for me since I usually know they guys I'm playing and trust them. But I really would rather see another step for the process in order to be 'safe' than to rely on others not to exploit it. Think about tourneys or ladder games. I guess that in such 'competetive environments' the appeal to cheat might be quite high.Parabellum, I understand all of that, but its the same system that has been in use for over two years in CMBO now and there are dozens of ladders and tournys that go on without this being a major issue. We can not protect all players from disreputable players. We do what we can though and are always looking at improvements but I am not sure what else can be done with the setup file and I know for a fact Charles has looked into this very issue several times in the past determing that the current implementation is about the best way. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by CMplayer: It would be worth it to add one step to the startup process of a PBEM to avoid this cheating opportunity, imo.The problem is that I dont think its a matter of a single step. Its more like requireing a totally new PBEM system which is not something we will do until we fully re-write the game engine. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by CMplayer: It would be worth it to add one step to the startup process of a PBEM to avoid this cheating opportunity, imo.I'm guessing this only happens when you let the computer choose the force, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Again, thx for your posts, Madmatt. BTW Andreas is using the german mac version, I'm using the german PC version. I didn't know that this was already possible in CMBO so it came as a big surprise for me. And then thess beta-testers who don't use PWs... Everybody's trying to confuse me! I very much appreciate the dedication you all show again and again. If it's possible, maybe you could add another process for the PBEM setup. With many games lasting several weeks I wouldn't mind one or two extra files. Kerry: no, it happens when you buy your forces, too. [ September 23, 2002, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Kerry: no, it happens when you buy your forces, too. That is strange. After all the PBEM games I've done I can't beleive I never stumbled across this in CMBO. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 I don't clearly understand if it is a thing already present in CMBO or if it is a version compatibility problem in CMBB :confused: Can you look at your oppponent forces because he failed to enter a password or because he had no opportunity to do it until now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by Dirtweasle: That is strange. After all the PBEM games I've done I can't beleive I never stumbled across this in CMBO. Wow.Exactly my thoughts. I really do not wish to know how many guys knew about it and used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dirtweasle: That is strange. After all the PBEM games I've done I can't beleive I never stumbled across this in CMBO. Wow.Exactly my thoughts. I really do not wish to know how many guys knew about it and used it.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Marcus, I'm sure none of the guys I'm playing used this little cheat. And since I don't play on ladders or in tournaments it's really no big deal for me. If someone wants to cheat, he'll always find a way. In the end all he does is cheat on himself. And you're right, if someone needed to cheat in order to win I'm sure I'd kick his a$$ anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Parabellum, May i suggest you change the title of your topic, less people will read it and learn the trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 The 'map peek cheat' has been a known issue for a couple of years now. It is the only "easy" way to cheat at CM that I know of. We were hoping the setup sequence would be altered in CMBB to eliminate it, but it appears that will have to wait for the rewrite. A small note: you only see your opponent's forces if you are doing a computer pick game or a scenario. If it is a QB where both sides are purchasing their own forces all the cheater sees is the map. Still a cheat, but not nearly as much of an advantage. That's why for ladder games I do not play comp. pick QBs or scenarios unless it is someone I've played previously and trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: ... A small note: you only see your opponent's forces if you are doing a computer pick game or a scenario. If it is a QB where both sides are purchasing their own forces all the cheater sees is the map...No. The game I played vs Andreas was a QB were we both picked our own forces. He could see my forces using the 'setup-cheat' and I could see his forces, not only the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: No. The game I played vs Andreas was a QB were we both picked our own forces. He could see my forces using the 'setup-cheat' and I could see his forces, not only the map.Jochen, I think that is the bug that The Brain in the Jar™ will have to deal with. Ruthlessly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 23, 2002 Share Posted September 23, 2002 Originally posted by ParaBellum: No. The game I played vs Andreas was a QB were we both picked our own forces. He could see my forces using the 'setup-cheat' and I could see his forces, not only the map.Ah, I see. As Andreas said, that is a bug. [ September 23, 2002, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted September 23, 2002 Author Share Posted September 23, 2002 Andreas, that's what I'm hoping for. And my glorious, brave, well-shaved Panzertruppen will smash your stinkin' bolshevik hamsters no matter what. If not, you cheated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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