Question for Hetzer grogs (attn. MODsluts--preview inside)

[AndrewTF]

Does anyone know if this paint scheme is supposed to be a Winter/snow camouflage pattern? I did pattern it after historical references and illustrations, but I am unable to find a context for its use.

Developed from the plain dark yellow version:

[edited cuz it didn't make a lot of sense the first time around]

[ August 04, 2002, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: AndrewTF ]

[Måkjager]

Andrew...great looking mod

As for "winter cammo" according to Jagdpanzer 38 'Hetzer" 1944-1945 , the authors state that some cammo patterns applied during February 1945 consisted of a thin base coat of red primer over which about half was painted with thinned stripes and patches of well thinned dark yellow and white sharp outlines.

There were sometimes similar patches on th elower hull painted with dark olive green.

Hope this is of some help.

Regards

Måkjager

[AndrewTF]

Hmmm. I guess that kind of sounds like this paint scheme. I modeled the paint scheme off an color profile that I collected somewhere on the net, and I've also seen a couple of Hetzers painted with this sort of white-stripey getup.

[mike the wino2]

AndrewTF

I want. If the Hetzer looked cooler maybe I would use it more.

Is mod compatible with Mod Manager?

[Runyan99]

Cool pattern.

[kump]

My currently installed Hetzer is your last Hetzer mod. The plain one here looks great as well, so now you put me in a pickle, trying to decide which I like best.

The Hetzer needs a good winter mod. This one wins as the best available. Yes, I would like that one! I need that one! Hi-Res for the winter Hetzer! Its a must have. Give me!

Of course, I always like the snowed on versions for just about everything. So a Gordon Molek snow work on that outstanding winter camo would do it even more for me. Though, I would be happy just to get it as is.

You should start adding the following warning on all your mods...

"Warning! The CM Community has determined that Andrew Fox MODs can increase susceptibility to the MOD Slut virus."

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Originally posted by kump:

The Hetzer needs a good winter mod. This one wins as the best available. Yes, I would like that one! I need that one! Hi-Res for the winter Hetzer! Its a must have. Give me!

Of course, I always like the snowed on versions for just about everything. So a Gordon Molek snow work on that outstanding winter camo would do it even more for me. Though, I would be happy just to get it as is.

You should start adding the following warning on all your mods...

"Warning! The CM Community has determined that Andrew Fox MODs can increase susceptibility to the MOD Slut virus."

Yes, agreed on all counts. Andrew's mods are like crack. Once you try one, you need another, and another, and another. . .

Gordo's snow would rock on that witer Hetzer, but I think he is busy helping the guys finish CMBB right now, so there's no chance for that at present methinks.

[AndrewTF]

Yeah, I think it needs some snow. FYI it's a reworking of my old Hetzer with new colors and a few new details. Much better IMHO. And ready soon. Very soon.

[Peter Panzer]

andrew:

...will we be seeing a version of your re-touched kubelwagon anytime soon?

perhaps at kump's site?

[Paul T. Gardner]

AndrewTF,

The scheme you have rendered so masterfully is not a winter scheme.

Many of the Hetzers manufactured in Czechoslovakia during 1945 were painted in Czech colours, due to shortages of standard German paint. The scheme you have modded was quite common on these vehicles, consisting of a base coat of khaki (dark green), earth brown and cream.

On this last point, I think maybe the light tone is too bright white? I think it was more a dirty cream.

Having said that, it looks great for use as a winter camouflage as is.

"Very soon" is not soon enough

[ August 05, 2002, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: Paul T. Gardner ]

[AndrewTF]

Thank you! that was the answer I was looking for. I've seen pix where the white area is quite bright, but I can tone it down a bit. I guess this means I'll have to make a whitewashed version...

I might release the "basic" dark yellow version first, as it will take some work yet to get the camo pattern to match up properly. The dark yellow one will be a good base for people who want to crank out there own variations on the mod.

[mike the wino2]

Where can we get this mod? Is it good to go yet? :confused:

[Panzer Leader]

I love it!

[Peter Panzer]

andrew:

...will we be seeing a version of your re-touched kubelwagon anytime soon?

...take two.

[AndrewTF]

Originally posted by Peter Panzer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> andrew:

...will we be seeing a version of your re-touched kubelwagon anytime soon?

...take two.</font>

[Peter Panzer]

...thanks - i'll be sure to keep an eye out...

...if you have a new found hankerin' for kraut tank destroyers, i would love to see you rework the woe begotten "nashorn."

keep the good stuff coming.

[Paul T. Gardner]

Originally by AndrewTF:

I might release the "basic" dark yellow version first, as it will take some work yet to get the camo pattern to match up properly.

Do you mean you are going to change the tone of the khaki and earth brown on the camo'd version? I think it looks absolutely spot on as is. It has that faded and 'used' look that so many of the modsluts (including me) love.

Of course if that's not what you meant, then what I said anyway. The mod looks great!

Rgds

[Paul T. Gardner]

Originally by Peter Panzer:

..if you have a new found hankerin' for kraut tank destroyers, i would love to see you rework the woe begotten "nashorn."

Peter, I'm going to assume that you don't have Mike Duplessis' wonderful Nashorn mod, cause if you did, you wouldn't be asking for another

As the comments say: "Full set with Mono, Bi, Tri-color and Winter Pattern textures for both Nashorn and Hummel. Impressive!"

Check out this page for the mod: Combat Mission HQ German Support Vehicles

It's about half way, to three-quarters down the page...

[MikeyD]

Everybody seems to get the poor Hetzer Camou wrong in one way or another. What you've got is a pretty close approximation of the standard factory finish... EXCEPT your brown should actually be a brick red, as the original red primer was used for one of the colors.

This is also true for late war factory-applied Panther camou too, but you never ever (well, hardly ever) see the red primer color used by modelers. I think they're a bit frightened by it.

I remember a couple years ago driving past an old M60A1 tank monument undergoing repairs up in Maine. It had been painted an overall red primer, and all I could think was "A second coat of green and some yellow ambush scheme spots and that would be one nice looking tank!"

[AndrewTF]

It's really looked more red when I originally painted it than how it turneed out in-game. It's supposed to look like weathered red oxide primer, which is essentially rust.

[Peter Panzer]

howdy paul:

...thanks for the link, however that is the mod i am currently using.

...to be sure, it's fine work. i reckon i'm always eager for a fresh interpretation, especially seeing as there is a dearth of mods for this particular vehicle.

[lcm1947]

Good looking mod Andrew. I wonder what they had in mind when painting a tank those colors? I mean surely it would stand out in snow or green terrain? It sure looks cool ( the Mod ) and I would sure use it but Anybody know what they thought they were doing when they used that look ?

[MikeyD]

Hey ICM 1947, if you put that puppy a thousand yards out, nestled behind some brush or in a stand of trees that will be a VERY difficult vehicle to spot, either from the ground or from the air.

Sometimes good camouflage can be counter-intuitive. Remember the Brit Desert war "razzle-dazzle" camouflage? Sharply defined hard-edge areas of color including yellow, black, and robin's egg blue! It was said to be almost impossible to accurately eyeball the range of a vehicle dressed like that.

[Zitadelle]

And, you don't even have to be 1000 meters from the vehicle and it located in trees to lose sight of the vehicle. Here's an exercise on spotting:

When driving down a road notice how far away you notice another vehicle (either parked or even moving toward you). Then, check the odometer and track the distance traveled before reaching the point where you first spotted the other vehicle. You will probably be surprised how close the range really is. And, this is even considering that:

1) The other car is in the open

2) The other car is moving

3) The other car is probably not camoflauged

4) You are not trying to keep your head down (at least I hope not while driving) and dodging incoming rounds.

5) You are looking through a full windshield versus a vision slit.

Much like MikeD refers, camofluage is not necessarily a case of subtle colors for blending into the surroundings. Early German color schemes were the infamous 'Panzer Grey' which was to blend into the local environment by the vehicle picking up the localized dirt and dust and the vehicle blending in. Take a look at weathered Panzer Grey vehicle photos from the Desert or Eastern Front. Also, the color was chosen because it blended into shadows as well. Of course, the Germans encountered problems when the vehicle was in snowy conditions.

An even more bizarre example has been some recent studies using a brighter surface for camoflauge. Lights have been mounted on a vehicle with a similar bright intensity of the daylight. At a distance, the result is not a bright vehicle, but rather the vehicle blending into the horizon. I have seen coverage of this approach with a vehicle parked on a crestline disappearing to visual observation about 400m away. The human eye cannot tell the difference between the normal brightness and the vehicle silhoutte.

Which brings the discussion full circle. Camoflauge is only to work at a distance. At close ranges, I would hope that a target can be spotted. At a long distance, the vehicle cannot be spotted simply based upon the abilities/limitations of the human eye and battle conditions. I would argue that the goal is for that middle range.

(And, then there is Jentz's opinion that vehicle camoflauge serves two purposes: 1)morale booster- the troops don't think they are seen; and 2)to keep the gruts busy as they paint and re-paint their vehicles.)

[lcm1947]

Thanks for the reply guys. I guess you're right but me just thinking about it it didn't seem right but I guess they knew what they were doing or wouldn't have done it. And Zitadelle that remark about it being a morale booster is right on. I remember in my hunting days I felt a lot better about getting something when I had on camo.