Little Jem

[Guest Pillar]

The PIAT team. Just discovered their lethality in a game with Hack.

The PIAT doesn't make a "woosh" from the rocket when it fires, since it is fired via spring. This means they are very hard to spot for armor.

Luckily, I had infantry near by.

Just thought I'd throw it in here for the newbies.

[Grobdeutschland]

Coolbeans, thanks. But the "wooshers" are much better, right?

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"Far better it is

To dare mighty things...

Then to take rank with

Those poor, timid spirits

Who know neither

Victory nor defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt 1899

[MoJo]

Hi,

In regards to AT teams, I've been having great difficulty in actually hitting armor with Panzerschrecks, I once had 4 AT teams against 2 Shermans and after all their ammunition was out they were only able to take out 1 (after many attempts) and completely missed the other. Of course the one they hit was alot closer to them but the other was only a few meters behind. Has anyone had this kind of trouble with AT teams targeting tanks? I had them in a house with 2 levels, would the top floor be a better place to put them?(They were in a 2 story building on the bottom floor).

-MoJo

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"For every soldier that died at Dieppe, ten were saved on D-Day"

--Lord Louis Mountbatten

[Guest Pillar]

I think the basic rule is that if you want even a 50% chance to hit, you must be really close (like 50m).... and even then, he'll miss the first two shots.

I once had a Schreck with a "%50" chance to hit and a definite kill (was an HT), stationary target. Missed the first two shots and then got mowed down by .50 cal.

In short, don't rely on them to kill tanks.

But if you have to pick one, I like the stealth of the PIAT.

[Thermopylae]

On the other ahnd, i've had a signle shreck knock out two jumbos at 168 and 174 m.

[stic.man]

from my experience 'zook teams seem to have a better chance against taking out enemy tanks. they have like 8-9 shots i think, and generally seem to be more accurate. ive never used a piat but am about try them out in a qb. but it seems to me that shreck teams with less than 3 shots left usually hit their targets, and also in my experience an anti-tank team (zook or shreck) seem to knock out tanks when they are under fire. wierd if you ask me.

[Beer_n_Pretzels]

On the subject of PIATs, I find them to be more inaccurate than a zook or schreck (real or imagined). However when they hit, they can just about kill anything. Furthermore, because there is no backblast they are harder to spot, so in some cases you can fire three or four shots before the tank even realises it is under fire!

The best way to deploy PIATS (and other AT teams) is in pairs perpendicular to the likely line of enemy advance. This ensures that at least one of them has a flank shot as well as more of a chance for a first-fire kill.

[Grobdeutschland]

I love this forum, I don't know why I never realized it's value before. Keep it coming you guys.

[Hota]

Yesterday I had a zook take 6 shots at flak vehicle at 50-80M and not hit a one!

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Hota

[MoJo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

In short, don't rely on them to kill tanks.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, but I was just wondering, if you have plenty of armor around and you still have these AT Teams, what in the heck do you do with them? How do you guys use these AT teams? Any ideas and replies would be appreciated.

-MoJo

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"For every soldier that died at Dieppe, ten were saved on D-Day"

--Lord Louis Mountbatten

[Samhain]

It seems that AT teams are most effective in dug-in positions on defense, particularly along the edges of wooded areas. If the tanks can be lured into areas with lots of forested areas (foolish on the face of it), they'll be so close that they'll stand little chance against multiple AT teams. Buttoned tanks will never spot them. Don't put them in buildings though: I saw an American bazooka team set the building they were in on fire when they tried to shoot one of my armored cars. Poetic justice

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I rode a tank, held a general's rank

When the blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank.

--Rolling Stones

[This message has been edited by Samhain (edited 12-18-2000).]

[Guest Pillar]

Mojo,

Run them to the closest cover where the enemy armor may be, than CRAWL them into a firing position. They can usually get two shots off before being killed or having to withdraw.

[Monte99]

I've had great luck with zooks defensively, hiding them along roads and lines of advance and taking flank shots at point-blank range. Seems to me they nearly always hit in such circumstances.

I can never seem to get them properly positioned in the attack though...

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"Arms are my ornaments, warfare my repose." - Don Quixote

[Ben Galanti]

Another warning about putting panzershrikes and bazookas in buildings is, even if the building gets set on fire, the team will most likely be pinned by the backblast. I would think that the pinning would affect both follow on accuracy and rate of fire, but I haven't tested this.

I don't think the PIAT has the pinning problem in buildings, which is a plus for it.

[Guest Mikey D]

Odd. I've had lousy luck with zooks and great luck with panzershrikes, just the opposite of some of the postings above! The German weapon seems to have a better range. And of course a Sherman's as big as a barn door.

[LimShady]

I just played an interesting scenario, with 1 bazooka team in the upper corner of building, and a long curvy road heading to it. Because it was night and the there were woods on either side of the road, the armor couldn't see the team until it was spitting distance (10m) from the bazooka... The bazooka team knocked out 4 armored cars, 2 StuGs, and 2 unidentifieds... The wreckage caused such a traffic jam behind it, that i could rush an M10 to the area, cover it by the building, and have it pick off the oncoming armor, which was slowed by the mass of disabled vechiles...

[Jackal]

I have had huge disappointments with both the zook and schrek and limited play the PIAT, which was more accurate in my case. I usually deploy AT teams in pairs trying to maintain a 50-100m distance between them. In a recent QB selected Combined Arms for both; I had choosen two tanks and the rest was Infantry and support in a 1,000 pt battle. To my surprise the Germans had chosen 3 light tanks, 2 armored cars, and about 4 HT's and an Infantry Company. I had placed three (3) AT Teams on my left flank, which was perfect for an armor assault; two (2) AT Teams on my right flank, which was more heavily wooded; and another two (2) AT teams on my front, which had mediocre woods and great routes for armor. All of my zook's were engaged at one point or another, with the left flank being hit the hardest with the enemey armor. My zooks on the left flank expended all of their ammo (some 24 rounds) with only FOUR (4) kills; the right flank had destroyed one HT, and my front AT Teams managed to kill one HT. my tanks disposed of the remaining vehicles, with both being lost to enemy AT teams later on. I am always disappointed in the accuracy of my AT Teams, no matter the range. And the cussing really begins when they decide to open fire on enemy infantry. . .

[Banshee]

I see a lot of disapointment here with the bazooka's and schrecks, and I find that suprising. They are very effective units. I am willing to bet that most of the experience has been with Regular troops. Vet or better makes a huge difference, in both ROF and accuracy.

Jackal, 3 teams getting 4 kills (and I'm betting they are regular troops again), is about as good as you will ever get from regular troops, actually it is probably a bit above average. The lower the quality of troops the closer the range you should be to guarantee effectiveness. With Regular troops i would say anything over 50m's and you are relying on luck for a hit.

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Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

[Jeremy Sadler]

My greatest experience has been with normal squads using their AT weapons. While playing a game the other night an enemy tank appeared on my flank and knocked out two tanks in quick succession, then tried to drive forward to get a third. Unfortunately for him, he drove right passed a hidden infantry unit, which promptly put a 'shrek up his ass.

However most of my AT teams have been quite disappointing - however I think it's troop quality that is the big deal. Lower quality troops let fly earlier, and at long range all you're going to do is attract fire from every direction, including above. Buy Vets, place 'em well, and ambush.

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"Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition."

[Lah]

I like to use them with a sharpshooter to button the armour first.

[MoJo]

I've used some of your strategies you guys gave me and things turned out pretty well. Seems like you need them to get pretty close for a sure hit, no further than a 100 meters it seems. Here's a link to see a screenshot in a good ambush position for a Zook.

PhotoLink

Thanks for all your help!

-Mo

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"For every soldier that died at Dieppe, ten were saved on D-Day"

--Lord Louis Mountbatten

[This message has been edited by MoJo (edited 01-03-2001).]

[Guest Captitalistdoginchina]

Hey MoJo,

That is Clark Kent using that zook.

He has 6 rounds left, yet he took out 2 halftracks, one puma, one Lynx and one infantry caualty.

My mafematix tell me he must have had a minimum loadout of 11 rounds - and thats if he did not miss anything!!

Usually my zook teams start with about 6 to 8 rounds.

CDIC

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"Death solves all problems - no man no problem"

J.V.Stalin, 1918

[MoJo]

I was playing a scenario which had a Platoon of Engineers with some support (1 AT Team, 1 .50 Cal, and a MG Jeep with an M8 as a reinforcement if I remember correctly) to stop an enemy probe or something of the sort. Was alot of fun (sorry for not stating the scenario name, I will post it up later on) They mustve tooled around with the Bazooka Team (since I only had 1 team) and gave it more ammo.

-Mo

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"For every soldier that died at Dieppe, ten were saved on D-Day"

--Lord Louis Mountbatten

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Monte99:

I've had great luck with zooks defensively...

I can never seem to get them properly positioned in the attack though...

I think they really are primarily defensive weapons, intended to be used to protect infantry from armor at close range in ambush-like circumstances. On the attack, if you happen to have some along, why not forget about saving them for their intended anti-armor purpose--which may never arise-- and use 'em as mobile, direct-fire mini-artillery for blasting infantry out of foxholes and buidlings. Zooks can run with the infantry, so they work pretty well in the close-support role. Their fire is not always highly effective but I've seen them push a stubborn squad out from its cover, and its better than ending a scenario with a full load of ammo. You might want to save a couple of rounds, however, in case enemy armor does happen to roll by.

[PzKfw V Ausf G]

I usually put togheter a team consisting of 1 MHG/LMG (and ev. a sharpshooter) and 1-2 schrecks. This team is then placed along the anticipated path of travel for enemy tanks (important roads and such) in preferably wood terrain. The team is then order to hide. When a tank approaches the MHG/LMG/sharpshooter is used to button it and draw the attetion of the crew (buttoned crews have a hard time spotting a schreck until it's way to late). The schreck(s) are then presented with the inviting broadside of the tank within 50-75 meters. The rarly miss and the procedure can be repeated (alteast against the AI, humans tend to be more careful when noticing that their precious tanks are all getting shot up). My personal best using this tactic earned a schreck team 6 kills (shermans) in one scenario (veteran crew).