Peckinpah, Cross of Iron

[jtcm]

Tonight at 12.00, in the UK: Peckinpah's Cross of iron is showing on TV. I;ve never seen it, but heard that it's worth seeing.

[Juju]

It is. Enjoy!

Just caught the first hour of 'Patton' here in the Netherlands before -sadly- I had to go to work.

[jgdpzr]

Definitely worth seeing. In fact, I rank it up there with the top war films of all time. Coburn is fantastic, and Schell is outstanding as well. Hell, all of the performances are great, including James Mason and David Warner. I am pretty sure this is Peckinpah's final film. You are in for a treat if you have never seen it.

[MikeT]

Do not miss that show. It is a good one but is highly influenced by the political thinking of Hollywood. Still it is a good war movie.

MikeT

[jtcm]

Well, i've just seen "Cross of Iron". An (anti)war movie of the 70's, with lots of effects one can like or find annoying (e.g. the end, with the children singing as everything falls to bits; open ending, Coburn's laugh); I liked it.

The politics are also typical, i think, of the "German anti-war narrative", Landser narrative, with the bad officer, the weary colonel, the amoral, earthy, invincible corporal, etc. But Peckinpah does frame this with images of civilians cheering Hitler, and a slideshow at the end of civilians being hanged by Germans; the sort of images that made up the Hamburg exhibition of 1995 or thereabouts (Krieg der Vernichtung), the one which caused a fuss.

Much better movie than the Hollywoodesque and incomprehensible "Enemy at the Gates". The level of accuracy in the equipment, etc, seemed remarkable, at least to my untrained eye, and for the period; T-34s (well, with 85 rather than 76mm guns-- is thar right for spring 1943 ?); the 3x scope on a sniperized Moisin-Nagant captured in the outpost the German recon overruns in the first scene; lots of PPSH-41, including in German use; 20mm quad defending against infantry; teller mines against tanks; Russian ATR used against infantry, and so on.

But also little details: German soldiers singing; homoerotic, though not homosexual, behaviour between soldiers bonding; a glimpse of Russian soldiers in a truck, with their shaved heads; the Russian women soldiers, with what looked like a female politruk or NKVD officer. Especially striking was the uniforms on the Germans in the first few scenes: of course, the combat soldiers' uniforms contrast with M. Schell's character's well tailored uniform; but also, there is a great variety in the frontliners' uniforms: caps, helmets, helmet coverings, what they wear under the tunic, and, especially, the different rates of fading of various bits and pieces-- looked exactly like some of those WWII colour footage or photographs.

Did Peckinpah serve in WWII ? Nice eye for these details.

Anyway, I found the movie quite gripping.

[Brian]

I always felt that it was an unusual choice both for the book and the movie - the Kuban bridgehead. Interesting to see something different. I felt that perhaps the best performance was always James Mason's character, attempting to show leadership, right to the end. Coburn was quite good.

I am surprised that you felt that Enemy at the Gates was "Hollywoodised".

Out of a matter of interest, was Cross of Iron filmed in Jugoslavia like Kelley's Heroes (and interestingly, Waterloo)?

[Frenchy]

Some info...

Co-produced by Rapid Film GmBH and Terra Film Kunst (Germany). Production services by Palladium Film (Munich).

Color by Technicolor. Shot in Yugoslavia.

At the end of the film is a quote from Bertolt Brecht: "Don't rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again."

Additional cast: Roger Fritz (Lt. Triebig), Vadim Glowna (Kern), Fred Stillkrauth (Schnurrbart), Burkhardt Driest (Maag), Dieter Schidor (Anselm), Michael Nowka (Dietz), Veronique Vendell (Marga), Arthur Brauss (Zoll), and Slavco Stimac (Russian Boy).

Additional credits: Joseph Satzinger (wardrobe supervisor), Helmut Klee (special effects), Evelyn Dohring (hairstylist)

Originally released on video in 1984.

Originally soundtrack album on EMI Records. Music recorded at the Music Centre, Wembley.

Copyright 1977 Rapid Film GmbH.

[rhudat]

i thought the movie was good but the book is great. there are parts in the book that are not in the movie. iv'e read it more than once and still enjoy every time. its a must read. IMHO.

[russellmz]

is he talking the enemy at the gates made recently?

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by russellmz:

is he talking the enemy at the gates made recently?

Who?

:confused:

Michael

[jtcm]

Well, i was, at any rate (the J. J. Annaud movie with Jude Law playing Zaitsev, Rachel Weiss playing his girl, R. Harris playing the German sniper). Detestable.

best

j

[Nick Schieben]

Before this thread get locked and shifted to the "other" forum:

I found the book The CoI by Willi Heinrick a lot better than the movie, although the movie wasn't all that bad either. The book has a lot more going on, which was omitted from the movie, and ther'e a bit more historical information about those particular battles. Another book by the same author, Crack of Doom, takes place in eastern Czechoslavakia in 1945 and is just oozing with defeat. I had to re-read it because so much was happening, and it certainly wasn't a light read.

I'm reading Enemy at the Gates, which has about 3 pages from which the movie is based on. Much more from the Soviet side than most books on the subject of Stalingrad that I've read. I saw the movie, but could only sun it up with an OK, but the book is excellent. The movie has more similarities with the book "War of the Rats", which was written to bring the story to the masses, it seems. I almost threw the book in the garbage when Tania turned out to be American. I did make it through, but only to justify the cost of the paerback. Please!

Regards

[Skipper]

> I almost threw the book in the garbage when

> Tania turned out to be American.

Hehe... I had exactly same feeling.

It's unbelievable that they cold make a movie even cheesier than that (already ultra-cheesy) paperback.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by jtcm:

Did Peckinpah serve in WWII ? Nice eye for these details.

Anyway, I found the movie quite gripping.

the author of the book did - see the info on him at my site at http://members.shaw.ca/deutschesoldaten/ - click on CROSS OF IRON in the left hand frame

[ April 21, 2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Michael Dorosh]

From my website (minus photos)

I was pleased to find some information on The Cross of Iron on the internet,

posted by Hardy Huber to the message board at www.feldgrau.com He has graciously given permission for this information to be reproduced here, as well as new information regarding his uncle.

THE CROSS OF IRON

by Willi Heinrich

The Cross of Iron is a very well known book, originally by Bobbs-Merrill in 1956 and republished many times since then.

In 1977, in a rare international co-operative effort, the book was made into a major motion picture, released in both Germany and the United States, starring James Coburn, Maximillian Schell and James Mason.

There has been speculation over the years as to how much of the story is true, or if the characters in the book and film represent real people. The author's biography of the 12th printing states that the author, Willi Heinrich, "...came by his competence (as a writer) honestly and bitterly as an infantry officer in a fearfully mauled German division that bit deep into Russia and withdrew its remnants in broken retreat."

Hardy Huber, the nephew of a soldier who fought and gave his life on the Russian Front, shares with us the following:

A while ago I read some questions ... about the unit Heinrich is referring to, in his book "The Cross of Iron.” One of my relatives served in the 229. Jäger Regiment of the 101.Jäger Division and by researching his service I came across Willi

Heinrich. Heinrich was born in 1920 in Heidelberg and served during the war in the First Battalion, 228th Jäger Regiment (I./228.Jg.Rgt.), part of 101 Jäger Division. He was wounded five times. Willi Heinrich is still alive and lives in Karlsruhe.

There are several clues in the book that will identify the 228 Jäger Regiment of the 101.Jg. Division as Steiner's unit.

Page 13, second paragraph; He (Steiner) had been wounded at Izyum and hospitalized at home.

The 101 Jäger Division was fighting in this sector in May and June 1942.

Chapter II; "The Regiment’s new positions ran west of Krymskaya through hilly terrain bare of vegetation. The dominant feature of this sector was Hill 121.4... " Compare this to an entry in the regimental history of the 228 Jäger Regiment on May 26th 1943: “Kampfgruppe Busche (101.Jg.Div.) wird zum Gegenstoß auf die verlorene Höhe 121.4 angesetzt”. (Battle Group Busche from 101 Jäger Division will take the lost hill 121.4 back.) Source: Kriegstagebuch des Jäger Regiments 228

Lieutenant Colonel Karl Busche was the commander of the 228 Jäger Regiment. He was awarded the Knights Cross on 28.02.43 and was killed in action on the 28th May 1943 trying to take back hill 121.4

The battle of hill 121.4 is described in "The Cross of Iron” Page 33; Meyer tells Stransky that Steiner saved Lieutenant Colonel Brandt's life, “He was still company commander when the regiment was stationed in Pribram. They got into a bad spot – that was in the beginning of the Russian campaign – and Steiner saved his life.” In the original German edition on page 41 is an account of the incident, this account is omitted in the English translation. Meyer (his name is Schäfer in the German edition) tells Gausser that Steiner saved Brandt’s (Strauss in the German book) life a year ago at Studenok on the Donez (not at the beginning of the Russian campaign, the German text says that Brandt and Steiner know each other since the beginning of the Russian campaign.) "Steiner hat ihm einmal sein Leben gerettet." and “Es war bei Studenok am Donez. Strauss führte damals schon das Bataillon. Die zweite Kompanie lag, soviel mir bekannt ist direct am Donez. Den Russen war es gelungen, bei Nacht über den Fluss zu kommen. Bei den Kämpfen wurde die zweite Kompanie fast völlig aufgerieben…"

( “Steiner saved his life once…. It happened at Studenok on the Donez. Brandt led the battalion at that time already. The second company was situated, as far as I know directly at the Donez. The Russians had succeeded in crossing the river at night. In the battle the second company was almost completely rubbed out.)

This actually took place on the 19th and 20th of May 1942 see: Hans Kissel: Angriff einer Infanteriedivision (Die 101. le.I.D. in der Frühjahrsschlacht bei Charkow. Mai 1942). 1958; and also Kriegstagebuch des Jäger Regiments 228; According to these Sources, a company of the I./228.Jg.R. was surprised and pinned down by Russian forces (two Regiments and eleven tanks of the Russian 296. Division) that crossed the Donez in the night from the 19th to 20th of May 1942. It took the 101.le.Div until the 23th of May to clear the western bank of the Donez of the enemy.

There was also an Oberfeldwebel in the 228.Jg.Rgt. that was awarded the Knights Cross on May 17th 1943, his name is Johann Schwerdfeger, platoon leader 1./JägRgt 228. Could he be the inspiration for the character of Steiner?

My Uncle, after only six weeks on the eastern front was killed in a small village 3km east of Izyum on June 22nd 1942. He was nineteen years old. I tried over the last thirty years to find out more about his fate.

Jäger Willi Maier

Jägerregiment 229, 101. le. Division (Jägerdivision)

Born: 29 August 1922, Langensteinbach, Karlsruhe

Died: 22 June 1942

Location of Death: Rossochowatij bei Isium.

According to the official letter my Grandmother received, he was with a small reconnaissance group of the 7.Komp., Jägerregiment 229, 101.le.ID. Upon entering the small village of Rossochowatij near Isium (Ukraine) the group was met by retreating Russians incl. a T34 tank and annihilated. A comrade and school mate of my uncle who was not part of the recce group

that day, told my Grandmother later, that the reconnaissance group, let by a young Leutnant, was to find out if there was enemy activity in

Rossochowatij, but they were under orders not to enter the village. The Leutnant, against orders and the advice of the accompanying Unteroffizier,

decided to capture two light trucks and their crews, that he believed were the only enemies in and around the little village. Only a few of the group got out alive, amongst them the Leutnant who was subsequently degraded to an NCO rank. The comrade told the story to my Grandmother when he was on home leave in the fall of 1942.

His Name:

Gefreiter Ludwig Augenstein

Feldpostnummer: 27453 C,

7 Kompanie, Jäger Regiment 229

Born:4 August 1922 in Langensteinbach, Karlsruhe

Went Missing in Action: 26 May 1943, Krymskaya

This was the day that Hill 121.4 was stormed by the 101st Division.

[ April 21, 2002, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[PiggDogg]

Cross Of Iron. Great flick. Don't miss it. In fact, search it out & see it.

Cheers, Richard

[Lawyer]

I got "Cross of Iron" on DVD after seeing everyone's raves about it. Sorry, I rate it as only a good "B" movie.

I also got "Stalingrad" on DVD, which I think is much, much better.

Having seen "Enemy at the Gates" at the movie theater, I won't even consider wasting money on it.

But I will definitely consider reading the books behind these films if I ever have time.

[Jack Carr]

If you get a chance pick up the book that this movie was based on. I believe the authors name is Willi Heinrich. The movie is good. The book is also good. A little different than the movie but what else is new.