Are planes useless in CMBB?

[meldorian]

Hi!

I have tried to stop German Kingtigers and Panthers with air attacks in two recent games. I tried Il2s and that cheaper plane that only costs 140 points and is armed with a 37mm gun and 6 rockets. But these things never seem to hit! The only result I got out of 700 points worth of planes in two games is one inmobilized Panther. And that is not because the German player had AA guns or moved the tanks into cover. They were slowly moving over plains during all attacks. But the aircraft either didn't even hit or caused no damage. I should also note I had bought experienced aircraft because I thought they would be more likly to hit their targets.

Is there some trick to successfully using aircraft? Should I by more of them with lower experience or perhaps hardned planes instead of experienced and regular ones?

[Hurricane]

My (limited) experience is that rockets never hit. So try to buy planes without rockets.

[meldorian]

But those stupid bombs don't hit either!

[jwxspoon]

Sometimes they hit. In a recent game I bought a platon of King Tigers. A few minutes into the game an airstrike straddled the moving platoon with bombs, knocking 2 of them out and gun damaging a third.

jw

[ December 02, 2002, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by meldorian:

But those stupid bombs don't hit either!

It's my experiance that mine *never* hit, his *always* hits, maybe we should play each other?

Just kidding, but air support is unpredictable, wait 'til yours bombs your troops, then you'll be pissed!

KC

[Robohn]

Oddly, there is a thread about "Are planes too effective in CMBB" in the CMBB section.....

Robohn

[demoss]

Play Borisovka Station as the Russians (or the Germans, for that matter), and then ask again whether planes are useless. Or don't, as the mood takes you.

[Quinxi]

Frankly, I have found planes to be quite effective in many battles. The problem I have is that they sometimes are most effective against my own troops!

[White Phosphorus]

Originally posted by demoss:

Play Borisovka Station as the Russians (or the Germans, for that matter), and then ask again whether planes are useless. Or don't, as the mood takes you.

Funny you mention it. When I played it, the German plane dropped its entire! bomb payload smack in the middle of *that* spot of rough ground. I laughed and laughed and laughed.

[Redwolf]

I generally like the 20mm-class armed planes better than rockets and bombs. Both in CMBO and CMBB I found it hard to get a real tank kill with planes. But especially the Axis player is running around with thin armor a lot, and the strafing planes hurt a lot.

In a recent 1941 PBEM I had a Stuka to be safe from KVs, and it ended up pinning the enemy infantry half of the game, after killing two BTs.

I guess as the early-war Germans I like heavy load planes against heavy tanks. Not that I think they are that successful, but better than a short Pz IV they are. As the Soviets I like long-strafing planes with small-caliber autocannons against light armor.

[Dowdingski]

Aircraft weren't that successful against tanks in WW2. What success they did have is often overstated. For instance, during and after D-Day typhoon pilots were claiming dozens of tanks killed, even with rockets. A study group went around the battlefield afterwards and found only a tiny minority of tanks that had been taken out with rockets - they mainly missed and were horribly inaccurate. Bomb damage was slightly more evident. But mostly the tanks had been abandoned by scared crews or destroyed by friendly ground forces.

Where aircraft excelled, was against soft or very lightly armoured targets - when cannon fire came into its own. The 'Falaise Gap' episode is an excellent example of this, where RAF Typhoons destroyed a huge amount of German vehicles.

Large calibre machine guns did nothing to tanks, despite many claims by P47 pilots that their .50 cals were routinely taking out Panther's and Tigers! They boasted that they could 'bounce' the bullets off road surfaces hitting the weakly armoured undersides. What probably happened was they were hitting fuel cans stored on the outside of the tank, or the crews were bailing out due to the din the 50s were making, rattling on the outside of the tank. Again, the 'fear' factor becomes important.

One of the best cannon armed planes was the Stuka G-1, armed with two 37mm cannons (12 rounds in total I believe). Making its operational debut at Kursk, it was a favourite of the tank-busting ace Rudel. It required great skill however.

In CMBB, the air aspect of it seems fairly well balanced in terms of the chance an air attack takes out a tank, going on what I've read. The mis-identification of targets was an all too common occurance and hardly surprising; many of the 'fast' jabos (FW190 F8, Typhoon, P47 etc) must have been attacking at over 300 mph.

[ December 03, 2002, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: Dowdingski ]

[Eric Alkema]

Originally posted by demoss:

Play Borisovka Station as the Russians (or the Germans, for that matter), and then ask again whether planes are useless. Or don't, as the mood takes you.

Yeah! I managed to lose half a dozen tanks to 20 mm strafing in runs.

[demoss]

Funny you mention it. When I played it, the German plane dropped its entire! bomb payload smack in the middle of *that* spot of rough ground. I laughed and laughed and laughed.

That wasn't a German plane.

Yeah! I managed to lose half a dozen tanks to 20 mm strafing in runs.

75 mm PaK 40L. Yes, really. I think those bad boys have some smaller weaponry as well, but the 75 is what gets you.

[Tigrii]

If you want to kill tanks, get planes with big bombs. For the rusians, get PE-2s. For the Germans, get whatever Stuka variant has the best bombload. My favorite is the PE-2 FT, whcih has 8 550 pound bombs! It is a dive bomber, so it's pretty accurate. It's very expensive, though.

[demoss]

If you want to kill tanks, get planes with big bombs.

Nope. The Hs-129 B3 is better than anything else out there, with no bombs at all. Again, see Borisovka Station if you doubt.

I think there's a Sturmovik with a 37mm that's also pretty good, but the 75 on the Hs-129 is a monster.

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by demoss:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Yeah! I managed to lose half a dozen tanks to 20 mm strafing in runs.

75 mm PaK 40L. Yes, really. I think those bad boys have some smaller weaponry as well, but the 75 is what gets you.</font>

[demoss]

Not in that scenario - the Hs-129's have a 30mm cannon that works well enough when it gets top hits.

I could check again, I guess, but I opened it up in the editor to check a couple weeks ago. It sure looked like a 75.

[White Phosphorus]

Originally posted by demoss:

[QB]

Strange I could've sworn it got targeted by the m17.

[Tigrii]

The unbeliveable has happened: I lost a Veteran Jgdpz IV to rockets! A Yak 9-T got it, while my AA halftrak refused to engage and sat twiddling it's thumbs (or it would have been if it had any).

[demoss]

Strange I could've sworn it got targeted by the m17.

If you get down to camera angle 1 or 2 and adjust the camera view up, you can usually get a good look at the designation of the targeted aircraft - it may have been a friendly fire incident, I guess (I've certainly seen that going the other way - Sturmoviks launching rockets against T-34s). I'm pretty sure that there aren't any German planes with bombs in that scenario.