Michael Dorosh Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 PIATs biggest drawback was faulty fuses, which required a square hit on the target in order to detonate. This fault was rectified after Sicily, but user confidence remained low for a period thereafter until it was demonstrated in action that the new fuses were better. Perhaps this is what your memory is trying to recall, Markus? I haven't heard of "pre-detonation" of ammunition before - I assume you mean while still in the weapon? Perhaps your meaning is predetonation just prior to the target? Which might be the same thing as I've just described? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 It doesnt exist a word like Puppchen...only Püppchen is the right answer. Thats the same word you have to say to a young woman, if you like a smack with all five fingers in your face.. May today it isnt to risky..but i wont it to try out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: PIATs biggest drawback was faulty fuses, which required a square hit on the target in order to detonate. This fault was rectified after Sicily, but user confidence remained low for a period thereafter until it was demonstrated in action that the new fuses were better. Perhaps this is what your memory is trying to recall, Markus? I haven't heard of "pre-detonation" of ammunition before - I assume you mean while still in the weapon? Perhaps your meaning is predetonation just prior to the target? Which might be the same thing as I've just described?The PIAT's fuse was notoriously unreliable, resulting in a large number of blinds. This was acceptable in wartime but not in peacetime. That, plus the adoption of the 3.5in Bazooka, because of NATO standardisation meant that it was basically declared absolete soon after the war, by about 1948 IIRC. According to my sources, the PIAT had a better penetration than the Bazooka, which is one factor which must be taken into consideration IMO. Neither of course matched the Panzerfaust (200mm @ 0 degrees) or the Panzerschreck's (206mm @ 0 degrees). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianc Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 PIAT was poor due to it's inaccuracy and tendency of it's ammunition to predetonate with the user. I'd like to know your source for this (apart from memory). I've not heard it beforeI recently reread Cornelius Ryan's 'A Bridge Too Far', and although I refuse to hunt down a specific page # for you, I'm quite sure he mentions at least one instance of this occurring with the British 1st in Arnhem, much to the operating trooper's detriment I'm afraid... ianc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Ah, Cornelius Ryan...the original "pop" historian... Seriously, you mean to say he tells of a PIAT round detonating in the weapon? I may have to dig my copy out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: It doesnt exist a word like Puppchen...only Püppchen is the right answer. Thats the same word you have to say to a young woman, if you like a smack with all five fingers in your face.. May today it isnt to risky..but i wont it to try out... Originally posted by flamingknives: Why not? I can't find the word without the umlot ( ??? It's been a while since I studied German and I can't remember how to spell what those dots are called) anywhere in my German/English dictionary. Is there a difference in meaning? Originally posted by redwolf: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by M Hofbauer: (please note it was called Puppchen not Püppchen) Where does it say so? The proper -chen form of Puppe (doll) is with an umlaut. But it is not impossible that the term isn't intended to be the -chen form of doll, hence my question.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 IOW, the Püppchen can be traced back to angloamerican authors who tried to be more german than the german sources themselves, and then the classic case takes over of subsequent authors who simply transcribe from the former authors without reflecting upon the term. Not in my case, im a german and i know my language (not so the english.. ). If you can show me a german book without the "Umlaut", i will belive you. Puppchen sounds like a polish guy try to speak german... K_Tigerchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: Not in my case, im a german and i know my language (not so the english.. ). If you can show me a german book without the "Umlaut", i will belive you. Puppchen sounds like a polish guy try to speak german... K_Tigerchen[/QB]Apparently not. Check any of the respective DVs and ... hell, any first-source german language material on the subject incl. historical documents will spell it Puppchen. Therefore may I ask in return just where the hell you got your Püppchen idea from? btw sorry on the K_Tiger analogy. I thought it was meant to mean King Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wacky Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Go outside...take the day off...pet a dog...anything is more worthwhile than arguing about two little dots above a "u" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: It doesnt exist a word like Puppchen...There was a very popular early series of Opel and Wanderer cars (sort of forerunners to the Käfer) which all had the name Puppchen, and there are many old novels, lyrics etc. which use the name Puppchen (C. Zacherts "Puppchen, aus dir wird noch was"-novel, Jean Gilberts popular Operette "Puppchen" of 1913). even the more serious angloamericans start to reverse their former error and are using the correct term Puppchen nowadays (scale model companies (Tamyia, Dragon) etc. who do their own field research for their models and dcumentation). your claim that a word like Puppchen does not exist is simply preposterous. Granted, it is very uncvommon nowadays, but seems to have been rather common in everyday language to our grandparents and great-grandparents' generation and before. Cpt.W., the difference of two small dots is as important as whether the Sherman was actually called Shurmin or Sherman. Apparently such research is not of interest for people like you, but for me the sudden revelation that everyone had it wrong all along and that the Sherman was actually called Shurmin would be very interesting. Now go and play with your dog. [ March 18, 2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: Just to put this one to rest.. "Die deutsche Panzerjägertruppe 1935-1945" by Wolfgang Fleischer and Richard Eiermann. The German issue of Gander and Chamberlains "Enzyklopädie Deutscher Waffen". Are two examples... -- Now please stop being so definitive in all your statements. And if you are, you provide a source other than yourself. -- M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: It doesnt exist a word like Puppchen...only Püppchen is the right answer.Sorry mate. From Wortschatz Deutsch Wort: Puppchen Anzahl: 1 Häufigkeitsklasse: 22 (d.h. der ist ca. 2^22 mal häufiger als das gesuchte Wort) Beschreibung: Operette von Gilbert Morphologie: pupp|chen Grammatikangaben: Wortart: Substantiv Geschlecht: sächlich Flexion: das Puppchen, des Puppchens, dem Puppchen, das Puppchen die Puppchen, der Puppchen, den Puppchen, die Puppchen Links zu anderen Wörtern: * Grundform: Puppchen * Form(en): Puppchen Beispiel(e): Blond, blauäugig, mit Pferdeschwanz, ein Puppchen entworfen von dem Zeichner Reinhard Beuthin. (Quelle: Welt 1999) Okay, I am a bit worried that Die Welt is an example (maybe a typo, seeing what a quality newspaper that is), but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Ok i give up...my grandparents died last year, so i couldn ask them how common the word "puppchen" was... Mattias: I have something from Fleischer, but this one arent on my shelf.. Now please stop being so definitive in all your statements. And if you are, you provide a source other than yourself Sorry for this, i know, im not the god of all WWII infos..but i couldn writh better due to my bad english... Im over 20 jears interessted in the history of wwII, mostly i got the infos from books and alot first hand storys..but they arent all rigth and im happy if i found here the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: Sorry for this, i know, im not the god of all WWII infos..but i couldn writh better due to my bad english...Absolutely not a problem KT. Most posters have a solid interest in the subject matter and like to discussing just about any relevant, and a fair number of irrelevant, subjects related to CM, WWII and warfare in general. What is a minor inconvenience for the forum is the steady stream of posters fresh out of Discovery channel claiming to know it all -- By the way, I can recommend the book by Fleischer I mentioned before. I also have his books "Die deutschen Sturmgeschütze" and "Die Motorisierten Schützen und Panzergrenadiere", both of which are well worth having. -- M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 btw I can't help but notice that one of the persons who claims to have the last word on Puppchen himself uses a nickname which is based on yet another wrong english term for a german weapon. There is no english word "King Tiger", the correct english equivalent for the german zoological name "Königstiger" is Bengal Tiger, but that is another, even older issue. Ok, Ok, I'm sorry. I did say my German schooling was in the past, and my post was a question, backed up by my source. At no point did I claim to know anything. No need to be nasty. Was I incorrect with my translation of "Panzertod"? If not, were the other AT weapons ('shrek, 'faust) named in a similar way? Literal translations gives these as "tank terror" and "tank fist" respectively. Don't call me an American. I'll come across the Channel and burn your house down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dethvegetable Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 In game i seem to have much more luck with the pshreck than with the bazooka or the faust. I just wish there were a way to ambush 'armor only'... i cant tell you how many times my bazooka team, lying concealed in the perfect firing position..has fired on a recon squad probing the defense. :eek: Never fails to cause me to spend the next five minutes wiping the spit of my monitor after cussing the squad in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 btw I can't help but notice that one of the persons who claims to have the last word on Puppchen himself uses a nickname which is based on yet another wrong english term for a german weapon. There is no english word "King Tiger", the correct english equivalent for the german zoological name "Königstiger" is Bengal Tiger, but that is another, even older issue Who did say my nick is King Tiger?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 Originally posted by K_Tiger: Who did say my nick is King Tiger??K_Tiger, you're once again an Euro short plus a day late. see my post above "btw sorry on the K_Tiger analogy. I thought it was meant to mean King Tiger." [edited cause the euro sign didn't display properly] [ March 19, 2002, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: M Hofbauer ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 Sorry again Mr. Hofbauer i saw it to late... Now you must defend me with my argumentation about the Piat and her hard or complicated reload...now i know it...i got this info from your site.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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