Ace Pilot Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Just wanted to say what a great job Steve did on his Paw of the Tiger scenario. Seeing the Squad Leader boards in 3-D, and covered in snow, was fantastic. It was like a map reading exercise where everything falls into place. One thing I noticed was the use of pine trees and virtually no woods. Because of how tall pine trees are, it seems LOS is much more restricted in this scenario as compared to the original Squad Leader version. Was this done on purpose? Or was it more a matter of tall pines are more appropriate for the region? Has anyone else tried this scenario? [edited to add spoiler alert in title] [ November 14, 2002, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Ace Pilot ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Rapier Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Agreed, it is a fabulous conversion, Having had my head handed to me by the AI twice, I'd say LOS isn't restricted enough! Whilst the tall pines do restrict spotting over the top of woods to a greater degree than the original SL scenario, at least it means you can hide behind them, only popping out to shoot & scoot or whatever. My main problem is that the German tanks have a rather higher rate of fire in CMBB than in SL, so trying to rush individual Tigers just doesn't work - presumably why the Russian AFV count was upped so much. The loaders in those Tigers should get Iron Crosses just for spitting out several rounds a minute. This is also a very interesting scenario from a traffic management point of view! I've had a quick look at Balta - I'm not at all sure about dupicating the LMGs as separate units, it increases the unit count dramatically. Anyway I've yet to play it to see how it pans out. Cheers Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Cansell Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 Being a former ASLer(?), this was one that I was looking out for. I downloaded it two nights ago and gave it a quick run (against the AI, me as the germans) but after 11 turns the russians still hadn't shown up! I was contemplating a grand charge across the board when I received a 'better offer' and went to pub instead. I can't imagine what (if anything) I was doing wrong - any suggestions? Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted November 14, 2002 Author Share Posted November 14, 2002 Originally posted by Jeff Cansell: Being a former ASLer(?), this was one that I was looking out for. I downloaded it two nights ago and gave it a quick run (against the AI, me as the germans) but after 11 turns the russians still hadn't shown up! I was contemplating a grand charge across the board when I received a 'better offer' and went to pub instead. I can't imagine what (if anything) I was doing wrong - any suggestions? Jeff.Jeff, I had the same experience. Around turn 12, I was still waiting, so I sent a MkIV down the hill to see if I could take them in the flank. Instead, I found nearly all the Russian armor massing in the center of map, a couple hundred meters beyond the 2-story building. I quickly lost the MkIV, but the Russians soon came flooding into the open and quickly began losing tanks. Based on where I spotted all these tanks massed up, I'd say the AI has some difficulty getting across the bridges and it just takes time. All except one tried advancing up the middle. That one came across the bridge on the Russian right and got KO'ed there. And in Steve's defense, he clearly states that the scenario should be played as the Allies against the AI, but I couldn't resist taking on a boatload of Russians with only 5 tanks. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the hull down advantage the Germans have seems to make a big difference (I saw very few Russian rounds hit the mark). I've played some scenarios where hull down didn't seem to matter much. It didn't occur to me that the different firing rates between SL and CM would be significant, but they obviously are. Who remembers struggling with the German decision of whether to rapid fire the main gun at the risk of disabling it? I was also wondering why the Germans aren't given TRPs to simulate the "boresighting" rule of SL? My guess is that the Germans already have enough of an advantage. Again, great job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted November 14, 2002 Share Posted November 14, 2002 I played as the Germans, and well, the Sovs came and get creamed badly ... In the end they got the PzIVs, and the Tigers were out of AP ammo, shooting HE at tanks , but Sovs had maybe 3-4 tanks left, some immobilized, total defeat to them ! I don't think it can be balanced well, except by giving more possible approaches to the soviets, or some means to have smoke ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Cansell Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 Nice to know that I'm not going insane!(?) Ace Pilot - The Boresight rule came flooding back to me also, I had positioned one Tiger so that it LOS to both bridges before I realised that Boresighting didn't exist in this game! The other rule that you referred to was 'intensive fire' - trade off between an extra shot and breaking you gun (in SL at least, different in ASL). Memories .... Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Rapier Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 I played as the Germans, and well, the Sovs came and get creamed badly ... In the end they got the PzIVs, and the Tigers were out of AP ammo, shooting HE at tanks , but Sovs had maybe 3-4 tanks left, some immobilized, total defeat to them ! Well, it is recommended that you play the Russians vs the AI. You'd need to really crank up the Russian advantages if you play the Germans. My best attempt vs the AI so far was to KO all the Panzer IVs, immobilise one of the Tigers and kill about half the German infantry. I had around fifteen tanks left (all of which bar one controlling a flag exited the map) and a couple of immobilised stragglers - tactical defeat! The Tigers are just really, really tough - I got plenty of hits but they just bounced off, enough to keep them buttoned I suppose. The T34 needs to get a lower hull side hit from under 100m to stand a chance of KOing a Tiger, which I certainly didn't manage - especially as they are chucking out half a dozen completely lethal rounds per turn each IIRC the original COI scenario was hard to win as the Russians, but fun to play of course Cheers Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakalwe Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Just finished playing this one and encountered a slight bug that threw off the victory calculations. I should have scored a major victory, but instead I got a major defeat. I lost over 2200 points for exited units, and the AI got about 2400 for destroyed ones. I decided to open the scenario in the editor, and discovered that only the first platoon of each set of Soviet units was eligible for exit victory points. If this is fixed, the scenario should run OK. Nevertheless, I had fun revisiting the old COI/ASL stomping grounds (played this one several times with both systems – as I recall, this was a Soviet cakewalk in ASL). OK, time for the AAR: SPOILERS: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I sent my tanks in two columns. The smaller one consisting of two T-34 platoons, advanced in the centre, hoping to spot enemies and draw fire (recon by death in the true ASL style). All the other tanks were sent to the right flank. A Tiger on the slope of Hill 538 almost immediately brewed one of them up. The rest managed to reach safety behind some pine forest clusters. While the force in the centre was keeping the Fascists busy, being wiped out in the process, I assembled a horde of KVs and T-34s on the right flank. They all broke cover at the same time (took three turns of careful plotting) and charged the lone Tiger on Hill 538. The Tiger took at least fifteen hits to kill, and the hillside was pitted with scorch marks. Needless to say, quite a few burning Soviet tanks littered the low ground, but the swarm proved effective. Finally I kept the tanks on Hill 621 busy by peeking and dashing from cover – even managing to knock out one Panzer IV. The force on the right swarmed to the German rear. I exited most tanks, but sent a platoon of KVs and a platoon of T-34s to seize the flags. Both platoons lost one tank to the infantry and the ATG, but forced the Germans to attack. Using the constrained LOS between the hills, I was able to hold off the German AFVs until the end. One KV met a fiery death, but claimed a Panzer IV. An intense scenario, which also has something to offer for those who aren’t familiar with the original. Zak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 Wow, thanks for the good words, fellas. It is a fun scenario, but the AI really REALLY has problems handling the Russians -- hence my warnings against playing German v. AI. Zak - my failure to include all the Soviet units as eligible for exit points was unintentional, but now that I think about it, it might not be a bad idea. You would lose far more points to destroyed Soviet units than you would pick up in exit units (IMHO). However, I am willing to change that aspect if everyone thinks it would be good. Thoughts, anyone? Also, please don't forget to review it at the Depot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJK Posted November 16, 2002 Share Posted November 16, 2002 I just played the scenario again for the 4th time. This time, I gave no bonus to the German AI and let it place it's own troops. Due to bad placement by the AI (all the Tigers were well south and didn't see much action) I was able to exit almost 1/2 of the troops (tanks) while knocking out 2 PzIV's. The battle wound up a draw (55% - 45%) and I received zero points for exited troops. So yeah, I think that might need some tweaking. A really fun scenario though, challenging. Those Tigers, having the height advantage to go with their superior armor really cause some havoc witht he Russian armor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Am playing currently as the Rooskies. Using FTCR as much as possible. Need to pull away from ground level though to do road movement. Have committed to attack hill 538. Getting shot up pretty badly trying to cross the last bridge. If the Reds carried smoke rounds I'd be a whole lot better off. Red tank fire is pretty wild. Kraut tank fire is pretty accurate. It's not going well. I'll probably have to sneak up under cover of my knocked out tanks. Crawling in the grass..... Toad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eden Smallwood Posted November 17, 2002 Share Posted November 17, 2002 Originally posted by MrSpkr: Wow, thanks for the good words, fellas.Erm. Well supposing I had some not entirely good words, would you want to hear them? I guess nobody else had a problem... Eden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 nevermind [ November 19, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: 86smopuim ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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