Mortar Halftracks

[HarryInk]

I've been auto assigned mortar carrying halftracks in the last couple of games I've played (both as Axis and American). I've found them frustrating, being relatively unwilling to expose the halftrack to too much return fire, and finding that they don't link up with command such that I could use COs as spotters.

Anyone out there have experience with these delecate creatures, and have some suggestions about their use?

[Holien]

Hi,

It is a bit poor that the current game model can not allow them to be directed by squad leaders ala the normal foot mortars.

The use depends on the facing of the mortar as some face forwards and some to the rear.

They really are only suited to maps with good LOS and where you have pinned an opponent down and can then bring them in to help support he clear up.

The ammo load out is good but you just (as with all the Allied Vehicles) have to treat them as if you are moving around egg shells.

Use the mobility to move them to where required via covered routes and they can help strengthen an attack and give the Allied Infantry an extra edge.

H

[CMplayer]

Agree with Holien. They are best used either:

1) with _very_ keyholed LOF against enemy infantry in woods or light buildings

2) later in the game, after guns/vehicles are located/dealt with, to make the final push against enemy infantry

[Michael Emrys]

It can help to keep them well back as far as you can on the map as well. They have plenty of range and fewer things (like Panzerschrecks) will be able to reach them.

Michael

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by Holien:

... where you have pinned an opponent down and can then bring them in...

That's the only way I've had success with it.

Plaster the enemy with off map artillery and move the mortar within LOS to add firepower or smoke to the on-going barrage.

(The other, less successful, way I've used them are like expensive expendable recon units...)

Cheers

Olle

[Conscript Bagger]

IIRC, word on the street is that HQ units will be able to direct mortar vehicles' fire in CMBB - which will be critical with ATR teams running around.

[mikster khan]

I've had success when, like my tanks, I top-hat with them.

Cheers,

Mike

[HarryInk]

1. Thanks for the reply.

2. It seems my hunch with them has been right. They've only worked for me when the enemy inf are pinned by HE or fire and/or wedded to their foxholes in woods. When the mortar h/tracks have been involved in trying to repluse attacked, they've just been punched out asap.

3. Top Hat?????

[mikster khan]

Top-hat is the term (actually I think it is half the term) for when you hunt and reverse on a ridgeline. It works best when you have multiple vehicles poping up at different intervals. I've found it a very effective tactic for tanks.With mortar halftracks it works best for the germans since the allies fire rear facing and thus have to reverse up the hill and move back down it.

Cheers,

Mike

[ April 20, 2002, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: mikster khan ]

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by mikster khan:

Top-hat is the term (actually I think it is half the term) for when you hunt and reverse on a ridgeline. It works best when you have multiple vehicles poping up at different intervals. I've found it a very effective tactic for tanks.With mortar halftracks it works best for the germans since the allies fire rear facing and thus have to reverse up the hill and move back down it.

Cheers,

Mike

The full term is Top-hat/Lowski. You plot a 'hunt' order forward towards your target (top-hat), then reverse away from it behind cover like a ridge (lowski), and repeat that sequence a few times; it also helps if you still have pending waypoints at the end of the turn. That way you don't stay motionless (an easier target) and therefore your force enemy AFVs to "re-bracket" you.

While you're out of sight, enemy units may get distracted by other targets and point the turret elsewhere, so when you go "top-hat" again, you should get the 1st shot off. This is of greater importance w/ "real" tanks or TD's. Hopefully you will be able to employ the thin at AT-weak Mortar HT's in a "mop-up" role...either no tanks or AT guns around, or using terrain to isolate enemy infantry/hvy weps teams and smash them. They're good against lighter houses too, due ot high rate of fire & accurate shooting. Better exp. levels will make them more likely to get the heck outta dodge if AFV threats show up (they don't have smoke dischargers, so quick reaction & speedy reversing is crucial).

American Mortar HT's: the M4A1 is indeed a rear-facing tube (also has .30cal x40 rounds), but the M21 is front-facing like its German counterpart, and has .50cal x16 ammo.

The German 250/7 is fast, but not too much ammo; the 251/2 is slower but lot of ammo (no MGs for either). Both American ones are very fast and have mountains of ammo & an MG to boot.

[Louie the Toad]

If the HT does TopHat and acquires a target, when it does Lowski could it be that it might "stick" on target and hence fire from defilade? Has this been tried?

Curious Toad.

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mikster khan:

Top-hat is the term (actually I think it is half the term) for when you hunt and reverse on a ridgeline. [snips]

The full term is Top-hat/Lowski. [snips]</font>

[CombinedArms]

Originally posted by Offwhite:

IIRC, word on the street is that HQ units will be able to direct mortar vehicles' fire in CMBB - which will be critical with ATR teams running around.

If this in fact happens, mortar vehicles will go from the near-white-elephants they presently are to among the most popular vehicles in the game. Because they will then become the only on-board indirect fire vehicles in the game--as on-board mortars now are in the non-vehicle world. Imagine a platoon HQ hiding in a tall building, with a couple of mortar vehicles parked behind. The effect could be murderous, given their very high ammo loads.

They might become almost too effective.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by CombinedArms:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Offwhite:

IIRC, word on the street is that HQ units will be able to direct mortar vehicles' fire in CMBB - which will be critical with ATR teams running around.

If this in fact happens, mortar vehicles will go from the near-white-elephants they presently are to among the most popular vehicles in the game. Because they will then become the only on-board indirect fire vehicles in the game--as on-board mortars now are in the non-vehicle world. Imagine a platoon HQ hiding in a tall building, with a couple of mortar vehicles parked behind. The effect could be murderous, given their very high ammo loads.

They might become almost too effective.</font>

[mikster khan]

I didn't realize the M21 fired forward but I'll be using it more often now. And I'll taunt my opponent with Triple Crown references.

Thanks Silvio & John. This is why the forum rocks.

Cheers,

Mike

p.s. Toad..In my experience they will retain their target when briefly out of LOS. This works for both actual enemies and area fire.

[ April 21, 2002, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: mikster khan ]

[Olaf]

FYI: The American army today calls the Top Hat maneuver "Berm Drills" as the armored vehicle moves from complete defilade to hull defilade to engage enemy targets and then back behind cover as another armored vehicle does the same drill.

[Conscript Bagger]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

My impression of the East front is that there weren't that many multi-story buildings except in the rather built-up areas; hopefully the maps in CMBB will reflect this? If it's true, that is...

[mike the wino2]

Interesting topic with lots of great ideas. I will have to knock the dust off my Mortar HT's. Stopped experimenting with them as they tended to die quickly with lots of flames and smoke.

On an unrelated note any word on CMBB release?

*patiently awaits new game*

[Woodmeister]

I recenty suffered at the hands of a group of four US halftracks transporting an engineer platoon. They came on very late in the battle when most of my surviving units were very low on ammo. At this stage, I had only panzershrecks/fausts for AT defence.

By concerntrating their four .50 cal MGs on one foxhole at a time, they were able to panic my squads and force them to run away. The engineers then jumped out and mopped up.