Visualizing 3-D terrain?

[Gun Dog]

I have not seen this posted before, so here is my request for the next CMBB patch or CM3 game.

Is it possible for the current engine to more realistically visually represent 3-D terrain?

For example, under current system, I have a difficult time 'seeing' and therefore taking advantage of the the subtle differences in terrain.

Sure, I can download a grid for CMBB and the differing color of terrain also helps, but I think I would find it more helpful still if the game could incorporate some sort of highlight/cast shadows on the terrain. I think a slight shadow would help me to visulize the subtle height differences a little easier. (Similiar to the way a map/globes sometimes use shadows to give visually enhance the 3-D feel.)

If not feasible for this engine, can it be considered for the follow-on engine? I imagine there are a lot of us who are having a difficult time reading the terrain and who would appreciate this feature.)

[Bruno Weiss]

Considerably true, unless you use level 1 camera. Then, it springs to life.

[Nidan1]

What I like to do is go down to level one and "Drive" across the map from different angles, and as the perspective rises and falls with the terrain you can get a good feel for the nuances of elevation.

After doing that for a while you can picture that "Drive" when looking at the map from a higer perspective. Its like getting into the map and "being there",,, for me anyway.

[Michael Emrys]

The level 1 "drive" is something I do too. In fact, it is one of my favorite parts of a game. I've even considered making maps for the sole purpose of just cruising back and forth over the splendid terrain.

Michael

[Mud]

Hm, interesting question. It's not doing dynamic lighting yet, but faking shadows might not be so involved.

For now, I've applied a hex grid to the grass and snow textures, although I must be missing something about how CMBB aligns textures because there's a periodic missing edge on the boundaries. Hmm. Maybe they're not all oriented the same while on the grid.

Incidentally, if you find a grass/snow mod tasty, but ungridded, there's a package called ImageMagick that, combined with a little scripting and a grid texture, overlay the grid onto a bunch of images for you. You could use it to do some pretty twisted things, like try to make a "wireframe" mod by applying edge detection, thresholding them, and turning whatever remains into bright, shiny green. Hmmmm.

[Gun Dog]

Originally posted by Nidan1:

What I like to do is go down to level one and "Drive" across the map from different angles, and as the perspective rises and falls with the terrain you can get a good feel for the nuances of elevation.

Yes. I also have 'driven' across the terrain, but that kinda misses the point of my post. I would like to step back a level or two and see the overall terrain.

IMO, 'driving' across the terrain is somewhat 'gamey'. A real commander could not reasonably expect to drive into every nook and cranny looking for a covered avenue of approach. Instead, I imagine he would assess the terrain from a vantage point and give his marching orders from there, based on what he sees.

Since the terrain is already in 3-D, I wonder if some system of highlights/shadows would be an overwhelming task to put into some future iteration of this remarkable game.

[killmore]

What is really needed are hight/contour lines, just like they have them on the maps. (I can't remember their names.)

These make sense since lots of time commander would have a map of the area.

[offtaskagain]

Apparently the 3-D glasses out on the market do a really good job of increasing depth perception in CM. They typically run around $50.

[Louie the Toad]

GunDog,

Have you tried fighting and staying at level 1 except for occupying 2 story buildings and maybe a level 7 map view?

I have decided to do as much BB as I can at this level. Unless the commander had an airplane this is how he and everyone else operated.

FTCR Toad

[Louie the Toad]

Gun Dog,

I just re read your post about level 1 gameyness.

True. Driving ahead of where you can see, to scout with the mouse, is gamey. But certainly not following units and then viewing from their location.

Referring to my previous post: Isn't flying above the units like superman gamey too?

(Just trying to cause trouble)

Capeless Toad

[Captain Wacky]

I really think dynamic lighting would help this problem if the sun is used as a light source. You'd have shadows cast by hills and dips making them much easier to see.

[Pak40]

Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

I just re read your post about level 1 gameyness.

...

Referring to my previous post: Isn't flying above the units like superman gamey too?

He's got a very good point. Flying above the battlefield is actually a lot more gamey than staying at level 1 and driving across the whole battlefield.

Gun Dog, havn't you seen the tile mods for CMBO where people have exaggerated the land's color brightness/darkness? In other words, the higher the land, the lighter color of the grass. The lower the land, the darker the grass gets. These mods help a player gauge the overall 3D of the terrain, even from a birds eye view.

[BDW]

(somewhat off-topic) one of the coolest effects in CMBO (and CMBB) is to go down to views "2" or "1" and ZOOM IN. It is not very useful, but it gives a great telephoto zoom lens effect.

not useful for much, but very cool effect in that it tends to accentuate the terrain. especially if you zoom in leaving your forces in the foreground and angel up so you get to see the beautiful sunset in the shot. (ahh the photographer in me is satified my CM! how bizarre)

I wish there was dynamic lighting so we could see those Tigers in full siloughette!

[Michael Emrys]

Stupid me...double post.

Michael

[ October 10, 2002, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Michael emrys ]

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by killmore:

What is really needed are hight/contour lines, just like they have them on the maps. (I can't remember their names.)

Contour lines.

I'd like this too. I don't know how hard something like this is to program, but it seems like something to ask for in the engine rewrite.

Numbered grid lines at, say, 200 meter intervals that would only show in overhead views might be handy too.

Michael</font>

[Gun Dog]

Originally posted by Pak40:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

I just re read your post about level 1 gameyness.

...

Referring to my previous post: Isn't flying above the units like superman gamey too?

Gun Dog, havn't you seen the tile mods for CMBO where people have exaggerated the land's color brightness/darkness? In other words, the higher the land, the lighter color of the grass. The lower the land, the darker the grass gets. These mods help a player gauge the overall 3D of the terrain, even from a birds eye view.</font>

[flammenwerfer]

Gun Dog

Try upgrading your Video Card for a more 3-d feel.

[killmore]

Originally posted by panzerwerfer42:

Apparently the 3-D glasses out on the market do a really good job of increasing depth perception in CM. They typically run around $50.

I got GeForce3 with 3D glasses.

The crushes were too common to mention.

UNUSABLE...

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by killmore:

What is really needed are hight/contour lines, just like they have them on the maps. (I can't remember their names.)

These make sense since lots of time commander would have a map of the area.

I think you are refering to standard topographic maps.

I would guess most folks with some military or outdoors/hunting/orienteering,or camping experience have seen a topo map.

They show contour lines of elevation, typically at about 50 feet each (for each change of elevation) in north america (I think).

Anyway....

Some of us have been requesting contour lines on a topo map (optional of course , toggle off or on like trees or unit bases) since the CMBO Beta Demo.

The topo map contour line issue does not seem like it is all that important to BFC so I would certainly be interested in seeing a strong lobby for for topo map contour lines in the Engine re-write.

In My dreams.....

CMII = Optional topo Map with contour lines at 20 25 m (60-75 ft??) intervals maybe? Available only from direct over head views 7-8-9??

-tom w

[ October 10, 2002, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[sebastian]

My idea: Cursor-LOS

When activated, all uninterrupted LOS between the current mouse-cursor position and known enemy-units are displayed. This would be very handy while ploting waypoints.