My (European) take on the CDV distribution brouhaha

[Turbo Demon]

As I said above, I´m (foolhardily) going to

try to explain what I think this is *really*

all about! (Of course, I can only really speak

for myself, but nontheless, I will assume that

I´m speaking for the majority of us "Whining

Europeans"...)

And what I´m referring to as "Whining Europeans"

is of course us "hardcore" European CMBO fans,

not the entire European market!

Also, this is my first post here (altough I´ve

been lurking for a year or so), so please, be

patient, and kind, with me!

Anyways, here goes:

What I think this boils down to, wether it´s

conscious, or not, is that we, ("we" meaning

"Whining Europeans" henceforth ), feel that

we are being relegated to second class customers.

We are, for instance, no longer *allowed* to

deal directly with you, BFC, whom we, despite

our whining, actually like, respect, and trust.

Instead we are *forced* to deal with a company

whom, I, personally have no opinion of, but

many seem to dislike. But regardless, we´re

not *allowed* to deal with you guys, even when,

and, if, we want to.

Maybe my emphasising of certain words here seem

a little melodramatic, but it is actually true,

you know...

As to the slightly more "euphimised" art and text,

I don´t think that it, in itself, is the problem,

but rather compounding the aformentioned feeling,

while perhaps being easier to put one´s finger on,

so to speak, in giving critisism.

And by compounding, I mean that, altough

seemingly insignificant, we are in fact getting

a *slightly* more inaccurate version of the game,

and, as such,it must be considered to be a

*slightly* "less great" game than what is

offered to our friends in the rest of the world.

So again, we are being relegated to second class

status as customers.

Now, this reasoning is of course based on emotion,

rather than the kind of intellectual reasoning

required to forge a business deal,(And I didn´t

mean to be sarcastic with that last remark!), but

it doesn´t make it wrong for us to get these

feelings, in my opinion!

It might however explain the "clash", in that

both us and BFC, feel somewhat "betrayed", us

because of the above reasons, and BFC because

the feel they made a genuinly sound and

cunstructive business deal that should prove to

be positive for all of us, and end up getting a

load of crap for their efforts!

You have to remember that we feel as part of

the "gang" here (dispite never posting before,

as in my case ), and most of us bought CMBO

directly from BFC, once, a long time ago...

So getting this "special" treatment, does stir

up some emotions, as I hope you understand...

Anyway, I´m not trying to blame BFC for their

actions, as I belive they were, in essence,

unavoidable, but I dont´t like the effects these

actions have had on me, personally, and I really

wish that I, and my fellow Whining Europeans,

would have had the chance to be excluded from

being cosidered part of the European market!

(Unrealistic as it may be, that´s what I wish )

I also don´t tink that BFC, in their wildest

dreams, could have anticipated this reaction,

they´ve gotten, from some of us!

And I´m *really* hoping that BFC sees, and

understands, our point of view, and that we

all can agree, that while unavoidable and,

hopefully, in the end, profitable to all of us,

this deal did not please all parties involved.

Because I´m positive that BFC never wanted, or,

as I said above, even imagined, that some of us

would feel this way over the CDV-deal! Right, BFC?

(Not that I´m insinuating that they would have

done differently, had they known, because,

unfortunately, us Whining Europeans are hardly

even a fraction of the European market!)

But I would like to think that we´re part of the

select group that BFC is *really* trying to

please, (apart from themselves, of course!), with

their games, and that they really do care about

the way that we feel about their products!

(Or so I hope! )

Anyway, I would be sad to see relations on this

forum getting sour, jus because we don´t

understand each others points of view. And on

how many forums do the developers actually

participate in the discussions like they do here?

It´s an atmosphere to take care of!

(The first thing that went through my mind, when

I realised I wasn´t going to be able to order

directly from BFC, was, in essence: F@€k,

F@€ketty-F@€K, F@€k!!! Seriously, I´m *not*

kidding! It usually doesn´t make for a pleasant

discussion, writing when you´re upset...)

Ok, now I´m finished!

I probaby repeated myself ten times, missed

half of what I wanted to say, and the rest has

probably already been said on the forum while

I was writing this, or, even more probable,

nobody actually agrees with me at all, and

I´ll get flamed, but, hey, what´s a guy

supposed to do...

Regards,

TD

[ July 10, 2002, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Turbo Demon ]

[Battlefront]

Appreciate the thoughts. I think that is a pretty good summation, except for this part:

I also don´t tink that BFC, in their wildest dreams, could have anticipated this reaction, they´ve gotten, from some of us!

Tsk tsk... you think we do not know our audience better than we do our own wives? For shame sir

We did anticipate this reaction. We also expected it would be directed at us personally and emotionally. We also expected it to be a minority position. But the day we let our business decisions be swayed by emotionally charged minority opinions is the day we should just pack it in. Businesses fail quickest when they lose sight of the Big Picture.

As it is, we don't like the compromise either. But taken along with the other possible options and concessions that CDV did grant us, this is a tiny consideration. Even for our European customers.

We would like to retain the direct sales relationship with our European customers. Honestly, there is nothing we would like more. We even have a warehouse in Ireland that was all set up to handle the big release.

The CDV deal makes much more sense from a business standpoint as well as a European customer standpoint. For every one bummed out direct CMBO customer there are probably 10 people buying CMBB that would NEVER have even heard of it had we not partnered with CDV. So wouldn't it be rather selfish as well as foolish (from a business standpoint) to write all those people off for the sake of some emotional responses from a minority of a minority?

Unfortunately, overlapping sales territory is simply "not done" in the software industry. At least not in my 9 years of experience in it. This creates competition with oneself and that is never a good thing.

As I said, we will see what we can do about the censorship issue, but as far as we can tell nothing is going to change. As far as us selling a PC version (as opposed to the Mac version) into Europe directly, that is absolutely not going to happen. At least not for CMBB. Who knows what the future holds?

Steve

[Schrullenhaft]

Edit: I've just got to respond quicker... I'm takin' way to long to compose my posts...

Maybe you should make your case to CDV Management and/or the CDV Legal Department. They are the ones you would have to convince. Anymore said here is just beating a dead horse.

If you could convince them of any of the following points you may get your wish:

1) That the 100.000's of Euros they would spend on a production run (CDs, manuals, translations & printed box covers) that had SS runes and "Waffen SS" mentioned in the game wouldn't get 'black listed' by whatever German regulating body controls such decisions of retail censorship.

2) That CDV doesn't really need a non-competitive clause in their contract with BTS/BFC, who would probably sell a version of the game with a less stringent copy protection mechanism. Sure, only so many people would be willing to purchase from the US and pay the extra shipping and handling and the possible import duties, not to mention the wait of getting a copy in their hands.

3) Convince the CDV Legal Department that 'Waffen SS' shouldn't really be a problem since it is only mentioned in a historical context and that there would be little chance of 'black listing' for just the text alone. That way you could just download the SS Runes bitmaps and you would have the exact same thing as the Internet release.

Or you could convince BTS/BFC of the following:

1) That they don't really need an European distributor at all. Stick with the Internet-only sales. But don't forget to make an 'edited' version for Germany since it could lead to legal action of some sort if it was found out that a juvenile purchased (or saw) the game. They could live with 1/10th of the sales that they would make to Europe since they would only get a fraction of the normal revenue with a distributor involved.

2) BTS should find either a different (non-German) distributor who isn't 'shackeled' by the anti-NS laws or they should find multiple distributors (which will take even more out of the profit margin of any sales made). That is, of course, if they could even find any other distributors interested. CM really doesn't sell hundreds of thousands or millions of copies so it may not be very interesting to many distributors.

3) BTS should use the SafeDisc copy protection scheme on their Internet release of CMBB. That may lessen CDV's objections to exclusivity just a little, but then again they may still have to worry about the regulating body finding out about another version of the game circulating in the country that wasn't 'edited' (if BTS could even consider doing that).

If you can't tell already, you won't be able to convince BTS/BFC of the two arguements above. Good luck with the pleas to CDV...

[ July 10, 2002, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Fred]

I guess now everything is said and done.

Steve made his point and the few of us, who want it, will get their US versions through some nice people from the community.

So, everyone will be happy

Fred

[Scipio]

Sorry, I'm still a whinner.

Why not calling the Allies in CM:BO Confederated States and Imperial Stormtroopers? Why not remove all Soviet flags from the game, too? The Soviet regime killed more people the the Nazi regime.

To all Amies who think I'm an asshole (you are right) and whiner - how about this: you order an European SS-free version by me, and I pay all additional shipping costs. Everyone of you who don't think it's a good idea cause you want to have your SS units historical correct in the game should shut up now.

[109 Gustav]

Originally posted by Fred:

I guess now everything is said and done.

Steve made his point and the few of us, who want it, will get their US versions through some nice people from the community.

So, everyone will be happy

Fred

I'll be happy to order and ship U.S. copies of CMBB to Europe, as long as the game isn't released until August 20, when I get back to school. Email me if interested. So far I've only contacted one European interested in this, so I suspect a lot of people are going to decide that the CDV version is better than paying the extra shipping charges.

[gibsonm]

Hi Mum!!!

[Priest]

Scipio you are becoming a bore, be quiet. We get it, someone shoved a stick up your arse when you just happen to be reading Moon's post.

Too bad, get over it. Because I live in California I payed more for my car, I pay more for the license each year (a ridiculous amount) and it has less horsepower and more weight because of the smog restrictions. But I get the joy of living in California, which is a great place to live.

So you live in Western Europe, so that means that you do not get the words Waffen SS. Whoopee, who the hell cares, you still get to play the game. Welcome to reality, life is not fair. Man you would think you would have learned that from somewhere by now.

One more time because obviously you are having a slow day...

Want...

Steve wants to drive a T34 to work every day

Reality

As stated in previous threads, it would cost him his marriage.

Now go poor yourself that cup of shut the hell up Steve offered and relax a bit, CMBB is just around the corner!

PS: BFC lock this one up please, a request from a member.

[ July 11, 2002, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Priest ]

[Agua]

Damned Pete! I will get you a US copy, okay? Send me the money in US $ plus shipping and handling and I'll get you a US copy. You've got my e-mail, but its in the profile.

[WWB]

Originally posted by Scipio:

Sorry, I'm still a whinner.

Why not calling the Allies in CM:BO Confederated States and Imperial Stormtroopers? Why not remove all Soviet flags from the game, too? The Soviet regime killed more people the the Nazi regime.

To all Amies who think I'm an asshole (you are right) and whiner - how about this: you order an European SS-free version by me, and I pay all additional shipping costs. Everyone of you who don't think it's a good idea cause you want to have your SS units historical correct in the game should shut up now.

Well, at least you admit you a whiner. I would chill out--the hack to fix this issue appeared mere days after the CDV version hit the streets last time around, from what I understand. Someone with the same motivation but possessing the skills to put their money where their mouth is will tackle the issue in short order.

WWB

[Michael Dorosh]

<font color=red>Is anyone seriously going to refuse to buy the game on account of the lack of some runes and the dreaded SS letters in - what, one screen that doesn't even feature in the gameplay (the purchase screen)? Give me a break. If anyone is stupid enough to pass on the game for that reason alone, more power to them. I think that is all that really needs to be said, no?</font>

[athkatla]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

<font color=red>Is anyone seriously going to refuse to buy the game on account of the lack of some runes and the dreaded SS letters in - what, one screen that doesn't even feature in the gameplay (the purchase screen)? Give me a break. If anyone is stupid enough to pass on the game for that reason alone, more power to them. I think that is all that really needs to be said, no?</font>

Damn, if that isn't a hard colour font to read!! But to the point, I live in England, and I want the game, don't give a toss about the apparent "problems" with the cdv copy. My CM:BO is a cdv one, and I've had no problems with that. Just give me the freaking game, SS or no SS

[dieseltaylor]

Nice post Turbo Demon.

My views but put more prettily. What a way to start your posting career!!;-]

Regarding people not buying it because of the censorship that is a farfetched and silly idea. However most people on this forum do not like history being re-written for them - it is trivial in this context - but hey as principles go this is one of the few I have.

A happy Thursday to all

[Battlefront]

Scipio,

Why not calling the Allies in CM:BO Confederated States and Imperial Stormtroopers? Why not remove all Soviet flags from the game, too? The Soviet regime killed more people the the Nazi regime.

Why? Because your government was at least particular about which nasty bunch of people couldn't be called their historical names. If the German laws said we couldn't how the Soviet Hammer and Sickle, guess what wouldn't be in the CDV version?

ince you can not grasp the simple concept that this is outside of our control (and CDVs), and apparently are the only one still wanting to argue for the sake of ticking people off, I am closing up this thread.

Steve