AFVs in City fighting

[LC-]

What are some good tips for using AFVs in heavy city fighting. Besides surrounding them with infantry to clear buildings.

[Richard Morgan]

You almost answered your own question. AFV's in FIBUA (fighting in built up areas are strictly infantry support. Your infantry, and your infantry alone will be able to achieve the mission in FIBUA Use AFV's in a stand-off capacity only, preferably with your own infantry between them and the enemy. Let enemy infantry get close in and your AFV's become toast.

Hope this has been of some use: all the best,

Richard.

[Jarmo]

Heavy guns are essential. 95mm and up. 105 is perfect.

You need to be able to suppress that schreck immediately. With the close ranges all hand held AT weapons are deadly.

If you don't have large guns, stay well back.

[Warmaker]

The above suggestions are quite good. Just to add a little more: I highly suggest that if you're fighting in towns/villages with lots of 2 story buildings, esp. hvy.buildings, take closed top vehicles that you're taking for infantry support. For the U.S. the Sherman 105 is an extremely good compromise. Keeps the bullets off and should deflect 20mm rounds frontally. The 105mm is quite good for dealing with infantry and suprising light German AFVs. The British have several good ones available, such as the Churchills and some other 95mm equipped tanks. For the Germans, the only true choice is the good 'ol StuH'42. The reason why I would choose closed top AFVs for such situations is that infantry with PzFausts/PzSchrecks/Bazookas/PIATs posted on those top stories have a very good view and can shoot downwards into the exposed tops of open topped vehicles like HTs/Priests/Wespes/Hummels/etc. AT weaponry aren't needed to render them ineffective, just some well placed shots into the crew compartment and you've got a AFV crew in shock and in even more danger since they can't do anything while in shock. If they keep moving forward while in shock, well it can only end badly...

Also, even with closed top AFVs, I USUALLY don't try to keep the AFVs to close to the forefront. Any good PzSchreck/'zook team on those higher stories will get an even better chance to knock even the heaviest armor with a topside penetration where practically all AFVs have the lightest armor.

Here's another nice tool for dealing with urban settings. Flamethrower equpped tanks. I'm not talking about vulnerable, open topped HTs and the like. I mean closed top tanks like the Crocodile and Flammpanzer '38t. Flamethrowers are a wonderful, fun, and effective way to clear out even the most stubborn defenders. The British Crocodile is quite good in this task (much to my dismay).

[Stacheldraht]

One effective way to use AFV's is not to bring them into the cities, but to leave them at the outskirts (after that area has been cleared/secured by infantry, of course), pointing down lanes between buildings. That will provide excellent cover fire for advancing infantry. If needed, they can move forward down the lanes/roads, but only with accompanying infantry scouting each building on each side, for reasons noted in the above post. Bringing any vehicle directly into a city is always a very dangerous game.

[Cafard]

Flame panzers are a great fun in cities... This way, it's the AFV that cleans buildings to secure it's infantry friends

--

Cafard

[Kingfish]

When it comes to using AFVs in city fighting I just have one word...Snoul

[xerxes]

Heh, playing the americans in Desoy the germans have moved their heavy tanks into high ground overlooking my city and are pouring ap rounds into any of my tanks that show themselves and when they don't have any hard targets they are mercilessly pounding any of my infantry that get sighted. btw they aren't sighted along roads but are spread out an at an angle allowing all kinds of kill zones throughout my city. It's not pretty for me. I wish they'd move their armor closer but I don't think they are that foolish.

So if there is any high ground outside the city I'd make that my #1 priority.

-xerxes

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by xerxes:

Heh, playing the americans in Desoy the germans have moved their heavy tanks into high ground overlooking my city and are pouring ap rounds into any of my tanks that show themselves and when they don't have any hard targets they are mercilessly pounding any of my infantry that get sighted. btw they aren't sighted along roads but are spread out an at an angle allowing all kinds of kill zones throughout my city. It's not pretty for me. I wish they'd move their armor closer but I don't think they are that foolish.

So if there is any high ground outside the city I'd make that my #1 priority.

-xerxes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you're talking about Team Desobry, where the Germans have a height advantage. Here's some advice for Americans on that one--a spoiler.

SPOILER**Ardennes--Team Desobry

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The basic advice is: stay out of the city or stay well back in it. Your best positions are actually in the periphery of the city, using trees, hills and buildings as cover. Hide your infantry, too. I rarely let my infantry show themselves by day, saving them mostly for night combat. Make the Germans creep closer in to find you, then nail 'em with flank shots.

[ 07-03-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker:

I highly suggest that if you're fighting in towns/villages with lots of 2 story buildings, esp. hvy.buildings, take closed top vehicles that you're taking for infantry support. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To consolidate a couple of pieces of advice, including the one above: if you do have open topped vehicles, like say, the Priest, stand off a good deal further with those. Either keep them out of the city and use them to level buildings (the 105 on the Priest is great at that) or let them sight down long avenues. Save your better-armored vehicles for closer support, though always with infantry in front. Consider knocking down unoccupied buildings to improve lines of sight for your AFVs. Also, the Sherm 75 lacks the blast of the 105 but it's far from useless in the city. In short, use what you've got, shaping the task to the vehicle's capabilities.

[xerxes]

Heh, good advice on team desobry. I already got pounded by sticking in the city.

I'm in the first night turn and I'm launching a full inf/armor assault on the volks unit in the wooded high ground. I'm wacking their inf hard and overrunning their guns. We'll see, it's costing me some precious resources but I want the high ground before dawn.

The axis armor launched a night raid on the city (wtf? I never guessed they would try that). I'm getting the best of that with zooks and close assaults and I've moved my remaining armor in to backdoor them as they slow down after entering the village. The night tank fight is frightful and unforgiving. Luckily they didn't send inf against the front of the village because I've stripped practically everything out of my middle.

My losses (particularly armor) are high though, I'm probably in for it when panzer lehr arrives. At least their infantry is badly mangled. The two (at least) Tigers that hurt me during the 1st day haven't exposed themselves yet so I'm dreading their deployment. I also didn't know you could recover vehicles in an operation so a good number of dead pzIVs will come back - dammit.

I think I have a feeling for Desobry when he wanted to pull out.

-xerxes

[Andreas]

You may want to check this site:

http://call.army.mil/homepage/mout.htm

[Warmaker]

Oh, and if you've got big artillery, and the VL is in the village/town, it's a pretty good bet to use it to level the area or scare the bejeezus out of anyone staying in there.

[nathan]

my favorite thing to do is leave everybody out of the city then level it with arty and armor. it either turns everything to rubble or lights the buildings on fire. either way its pretty fricking cool. after i destroy a chunk of the city i move everybody in and hit them hard and close.