Scipio Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scipio: What a stupid question. I will run Combat Mission 5 on Windows-2012pro. I will have the latest Geforce-15 Ultra, 128 Terabyte RAM and a 100 Gigaherz AMD K-WOOMM Masterblaster CPU. The machine must be cooled with liquid Helium and has a build-in Fusionplant that delivers the necessary 1.21 Gigawatt of power :cool: .If you consider CMBB to be any random disposable game, fine. I don't.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Ok I know I am going to tick off a few ppl here, but I dont see the problem with what a Waffen SS unit's name being something different matters in the whole scheme of things. The more ppl who can play this game....the better. If that means BTS and CDV have to play by a countries rules and laws, so be it. Not all other countries enjoy what we have in America. They can name the unit "Barbie Doll Unit" for all I care, as long as they fight like the Western Version of the game!. Besides they can always hack the name later to suit their demand of realism. This is a fine product and the SS was a fine unit...even by another name. -Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralsaw Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Haven't heard from you for a while. Where's that shrubbery you promised. Get on with it.Howdy Germanboy. I've been lurking since ever, but only have had a laptop for a while so I couldn't play CMBO. Thus, no point in bitching on the forum. I'm gonna get me a big desktop in september though. /coralsaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: This copy protection uses undocumented and unsupported features not in the CD standard.A very important point! Notice that most (all?) software and music distributors offer to replace a CD that's faulty when purchased. Suppose they've added some of this copy protection and you have problems playing the CD. Then you go to the retailer and demand a new copy that's not faulty. If the retailer/manufacturer claim that the CD is correct but your hardware crappy, then you can claim they're performing illegal marketing by advertising the product as a CD, which it by definition is not. They will either have to give you a CD without the copy protection or pay huge fines and relable all copies as "not a CD"... (At least it's illegal in Sweden to make false claims in marketing.) I recall reading somewhere that Sony and Philips(?) that invented the CD standard consider to sue everybody that sell copy protected discs with a CD label. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Originally posted by tero: The disparity between school and home education is not an insignificant factor. If there is an "official" and a informal truth about the greater the gap between the two the greater the confusion among the pupils. There is only one historical truth which is teached by anybody (Unless he himself is radical in opinion or attitude. Such people exist everywhere everytime and nobody can't avoid it). Before judging the laws and the situation in Germany I suggest you come here and study it first. Do you think the rise of the neo-nazi and the ultra right wing politicians all around Europe are a passing phase ? Unfortunately not. But Germans and other Europeans consider it a real problem and threat to the society, while US citizens for example mostly don't care much about Neo-Nazi activities in thier country. Who has learned better from history? This is in contrast with the almost rabid (well at least how it seems from where I am standing) responce to them being used publicly. As you say - from where you are standing. Obviously you are not standing in Germany, so you can't judge it. Again - for historical and educational purposes no censorship is applied in Germany. Au contraire, mon ami. Only a week ago the German government has reworked the laws for archieves containing documents from Nazi and Socialist eras, making those records considerably easier to access for studies. How well are these proceedings publicized ? As much and as well as any other lawsuit or trial of public interest. What if their views are in stark contrast with that of the establisments ? Nothing. The parent's right to educate and guide their children is a basic prinicple of the constitution. It is not what gets censored or prohibited that counts. It is what gets OK'd, or worse ignored by these guardians. Have you ever actually watched any of the TV shows directed at small children or teenagers ? If a 10 year old girl (height 135cm, weight 35 kg) thinks she is too fat and develops an eating disorder there must be something seriously wrong. Or worse, when two 6 year olds get into their heads to kill a toddler. Everything else in their life gets combed over but what they have watched on TV over the years. Computer games they have played immediately before they develop these symptoms get blamed but not the TV shows they have watched and absorbed during the years they have been able to sit in front of the telly.. OK, many of the TV shows for children are crap and IMO sometimes even dangerous. But allowing one evil thing is not the argument for allowing another evil thing. In fact, the prohibition of one evil should be an example for the other evil IMO a child should have to have a channel to learn how to cope with negative feelings. War toys were banned years ago. Consequently the children (mainly boys) who have been pounding Doom and other violent games or have been watching violent cartoons have no consept of compassion they would have learned when playing war or cops and robbers with other children. And it is starting to show. OK on the channel. I as child went on the soccer court, the playground and similar. There you can work out your emotions, learn team play and compassion. No need for "artifical" violence. Don't misunderstand me. I play such games as well, but I have learned to handle it. Dont't think that I like CDV's decision, nor do I want to defend it. But you questioned German law in an inappropriate way, as it has served us (IMO) very well for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 double post [ July 24, 2002, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Ozzy ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 One think is clear, banning or non-banning will not solve any problem in this question, and it´s there where we should learn for history (unfortunatly the human race it´s stupid by nature ) because the only way to stop this is by a good education (from family and the whole society). If that was the point there would be less neo-nazis than there are, because even with all the banning neo-nazism is raising in east germany (apologies if I´m wrong, but it´s the last I read, feel free to correct me). However here we haven´t got any banning of flags of the civil war or Franco´s dictorship, or for any extreme-right parties and the fenomenon it´s very very very low. Please note that I´m not blaming anyone here. However I think that the right decision based on economical situation will be choose (and for whatever we say). Anyway any German could elaborate a bit more on this question, how is the law there nowadays? It seems that as you say is permised for studies and investigations. It´s permised to publish a book with historical names and such but not games, is this true? For example "Castle Wolfstein" was published without any modification? I also ask myself if it depends on the age, for example a product that is for +18 will be treated diffrent to a product destinated to 13+ years old, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Originally posted by KNac: For example "Castle Wolfstein" was published without any modification? I also ask myself if it depends on the age, for example a product that is for +18 will be treated diffrent to a product destinated to 13+ years old, no?Castle Wolfenstein has been 'indexed', AFAIK. This was more about the content than about the symbols I believe (clarification welcome). 'Indexing' means that open sale, advertising and promotion are not allowed. You are allowed to purchase the product if you are 18+ and have to prove this by presenting your identity card/passport. It is basically being treated like hard-core pornography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 The original Wolfenstein 3D was forbidden for nazi stuff, the Return to CW is "indiziert" for violence. I am pretty sure that CDV wants to avoid being forbidden, there is nothing in CM that could have it indiziert (18+, no advertising). Now, if CDV representives are on this forum, as Moon said, why don't they say anything? What Steve said about the German issues was extremly fuzzy and din't allow to tell which of the legal trouble options were expected. So far I can only assume that CDV gives a damn both about the technical issues with their copy protection and they don't give any hint about the nature of the legal trouble they try to avoid. In a few months they will complain so many European players got their game via US middlemen and we can tell them they had a chance to lower the qualms about technical compatibility and feeling unneccesarily censored and they decided to let it slip. [ July 24, 2002, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KNac Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 Thanks for the info. As it seems there, the law is very hard about games in general, a part of all symboly etc. I really don´t know if it´s good or not. And will let that for an off-topic thread. However, what happened with Medal of Honor for example, just curious. Well finally I´m sure that historical nomenclature are permised for books because there are a lot of books written in Germany, and german language which have them. That´s were the question it´s up, why not CMBB? It´not a mass product (mostly used by adults) and even if the to be 18+? Edited: i didn´t sae redwolf post. Yes some kinf of info should be given. However each time I believe less in the legal thing, I don´t know hoe the hell a game like CMBB could pass any test. Some time ago the guys from WWIIOL (an other WWII game) announced that finally the game would be released in Germany 8and the rest of Europe). Some people especulated about the long waiting time, because of the legal thing in Germany. But finally there wasn´t any problem. Sure there is not any SS or nazi symbology, but thre is a lot of stuff about WWII and still existing the possibilitie it will be included. [ July 24, 2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: KNac ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achim Heidelauf Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Hi there, just a short info regarding the European version of CMBB. I am sorry for my late reply. In Germany the criminal law forbids the production, import and export of objects which represent or contain symbols of unconstitutional organisations. This forbiddance applies for products that are designated to be distributed/used in Germany and/or outside Germany. All CDV products, including UK and other versions are produced/manufactured in Germany, so there is no way for us to include SS symbols and units. As you already know the SS troops will be named "Waffengrenadier" - I very much hope that you all can live with this change... Take care, Achim Heidelauf Producer / CDV Entertainment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinz Eugen Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Originally posted by Achim Heidelauf: All CDV products, including UK and other versions are produced/manufactured in Germany, so there is no way for us to include SS symbols and units. As you already know the SS troops will be named "Waffengrenadier" - I very much hope that you all can live with this change... Take care, Achim Heidelauf Producer / CDV EntertainmentOh to hell !!! Are we really going to take this **** that they pour upon us ??? Really !!! No Waffen-SS; only Waffengrenadier ??? Shame on BTS !!! Shame on CDV !!! You are limiting my freedom here !!! This is a serious offense... No, I'll be fine. Just bring on the game ! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 So, to sum things up on the differences, based on comments from Moon and the current European CMBO distribution: </font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> INTERNATIONAL EUROPEAN Manual: Printed book PDF-file Waffen SS: Yes Waffengrenadiers Distribution media: CD-ROM CD-ROM lookalike (Corrupted CD) Simple legal copying: Yes No Patches available from: BFC CDV, soon after</pre> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achim Heidelauf Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 man.. got me. Almost got a heart attack! thanks, Achim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Prinz Eugene, if i was you i would consider editing your post It's completely uncalled for. Achim Heidelauf is a guest on this forum just like all of us, BTS has made it clear to us that they value their relationship with CDV. I don't think your post is appropriate, even if it is supposed to have a humerous side... Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achim Heidelauf Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Olle - for your info: the European version will contain a printed manual plus a pdf. "Distribution media: CD-ROM lookalike (Corrupted CD)" --> what do you know about our manufacturing plans that I don't know? Achim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Originally posted by Ozzy: There is only one historical truth which is teached by anybody (Unless he himself is radical in opinion or attitude. Such people exist everywhere everytime and nobody can't avoid it). Here in Finland the situation has been a little different. The official history was toned down until USSR collapsed. Until that time it was as it it was taken for granted some things about the war were tought at home. There was a rather strong leftist revisionist movement, especially in the 70's, trying to get the Soviet version of the truth superimposed over the Finnish one. Hence there were quite a few veterans remarking "I still say we won, damn it" when the Soviet version was being preached as the gospel truth. Before judging the laws and the situation in Germany I suggest you come here and study it first. Oh, sorry. I did not mean to come across like that. I'm not judging the German system in particular. I just find it a bit amusing there are people who think being subjected to restrictions of German origin are somehow worse than being subjected to restrictions of American origin. Unfortunately not. But Germans and other Europeans consider it a real problem and threat to the society, while US citizens for example mostly don't care much about Neo-Nazi activities in thier country. Who has learned better from history? You tell me. The unfortunate fact is most of the European economy is in the hands of the multinational corporations run from Japan or USA. Do you think they give a rats arse about the socionomic situation of the rank and file of the Eurpoean citizens as long as they get their cut ? I just fear they will do the same mistake the German industrialists made in the late 20's, early 30's when they picked an obscure populist as their protegee who they thought they could use like Kleenex. Not that many of them emerged after the war as paupers for that matter. As you say - from where you are standing. Obviously you are not standing in Germany, so you can't judge it. I am not judging it. Just telling how it is dealt with in the media here. Again - for historical and educational purposes no censorship is applied in Germany. Au contraire, mon ami. Only a week ago the German government has reworked the laws for archieves containing documents from Nazi and Socialist eras, making those records considerably easier to access for studies. That is good to hear. As much and as well as any other lawsuit or trial of public interest. But the proceedings are not being used as a platform for the accused so they can get their message publicized ? Nothing. The parent's right to educate and guide their children is a basic prinicple of the constitution. Over here at least there is now a bit of a cotroversy going on as to how much is the responsibility of the state and the parents. OK, many of the TV shows for children are crap and IMO sometimes even dangerous. But allowing one evil thing is not the argument for allowing another evil thing. In fact, the prohibition of one evil should be an example for the other evil Would you believe I have had more than a few words with the wife on this. She thinks I should not let my sons watch war documentaries on Discovery with me. But at the same time she lets them watch Cartoon Network unescorted. IMO at least when watching the documentary I can explain the mayhem whereas in the cartoons it goes totally unexplained. Now, which would you think are less violent from a 4 year old's POV ? OK on the channel. I as child went on the soccer court, the playground and similar. There you can work out your emotions, learn team play and compassion. No need for "artifical" violence. Don't misunderstand me. I play such games as well, but I have learned to handle it. Same here. It is not the artificial violence that is all bad, it is the total detachment from the sequence of events. Dont't think that I like CDV's decision, nor do I want to defend it. But you questioned German law in an inappropriate way, as it has served us (IMO) very well for many years. Suit you, sir. BTW: if they were shipping the game to other European countries through an European company based outside Germany which has a warehouse in say Ahvenanmaa (you know it propably as Aland), which has a special taxfree status eventhough it is a part of Finland, would they still have to ship the German version ? Or would they be able to have a separate batch of the unaltered game for the non-German market ? They would not be importing or exporting it, they would just be shipping it using a subcontractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinz Eugen Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Originally posted by Stixx: Prinz Eugene, if i was you i would consider editing your post It's completely uncalled for. Achim Heidelauf is a guest on this forum just like all of us, BTS has made it clear to us that they value their relationship with CDV. I don't think your post is appropriate, even if it is supposed to have a humerous side... StixWell geez Sticks, I did not know that someone would be offended by my post, for I only strived for humourous effect in it. Guess that was a failure then ! Who I was trying to make fun of was NOT CDV who are bound to act according to the German law. You could tell that by the use of smileys, right ? Right ? I was more referring to those people who were really upset by the CDV-deal, and the greater part of their arguments were based on facts that, to put it simply, untrue. May it's just me, but their accusations which flew towards BTS and CDV were for the most part a load of bull. If these people make an issue about the lack of something so minute as the label "Waffen-SS", then I will be at a loss for words... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixx Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 No worries mate, i totally agree with you and yes i did see the humerous side, just thought it may of been a bit heavy handed as the first reply to the first post of a CDV representitve Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achim Heidelauf Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Eugen, Stixx... I survived it. Thanks for your concern! Achim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Printed manual! Yes! (From what I've understood there's no printed manual, nor bonus disc, with the CMBO version that's currently sold in Sweden.) Originally posted by Achim Heidelauf: "Distribution media: CD-ROM lookalike (Corrupted CD)" --> what do you know about our manufacturing plans that I don't know?I don't know how much you know... I just know what Moon stated previously; The use of corrupt CDs (aka "Copy protection") was a demand from CDV for signing the contract, and it's currently true for CMBO. From these two facts I draw the conclusion that CDV plans to use corrupt CDs for CMBB as well. I'd be very happy to be proven wrong... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 Been a while since I posted anything on the board but this ticks me off Big Time (Software?)! If I can't get the "real" version I don't want it, period (erm.. perhaps, maybe...). Guess I'll have to pay someone in the last free country in the world to get me the real deal. Although I'm dissapointed I can understand both BTS and CDV. CDV can't import/export anything with Nazi symbols, they didn't make the law and BTS has legal obligations to let CDV take care of the European distribution. Let's hope BTS makes a patch so that non-German customers can have a real version. It's the feeling of knowing some crazy Joe or Jim "over there" having fun with real hardcore elite Waffen SS while I have to try to plan with some low morale, second rate, fresh out of basic camp lazy Waffengrenadieres that's worst, really. At least we got a perfectly sane explanation if we should loose a PBEM !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 You can find a interview with Martin from BFC about the European release at WarfareHQ. I also try to get an official statement from CDV, but I have no positiv answer yet. [ July 25, 2002, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 I have a serious question, the answer to which may have appeared in one of these many "European distribution" threads but was swamped under the load of invective and/or silliness that seems to coagulate around this topic like blood from a sucking chest wound. Will PBEM files be interoperable between US-spec and Euro-spec CMBB? I'm assuming so, and am kinda curious as to how that works. Does the game engine know that what a US player sees as "SS Panzerhamstern" simply equates to what the Euro player sees as "something NOT called SS Panzerhamstern?" DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted July 25, 2002 Share Posted July 25, 2002 The engine pulls up the correct units, be it SS or Uberhamsters. There is no issue playing pbem or tcp/ip across the versions. Achim Heidelauf speaks for CDV, so you have your official answer. Rune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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