Is it TRUE?????

[Culex Pipiens]

on Warfare HQ site on the Friday, 12 July, 2002 topic you can read:

"CMBB will be available for purchase online through Battlefront.com (in all countries except the named below) or from their distribution partner CDV Software Entertainment AG which will release a PC version without Waffen-SS units and their notorious copy-protection into Germany, Austria, Switzerland, UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, BeNeLux, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Greece."

So in Italy i have to buy a copy without the SS troops? in italy there is no such law so why i have to buy a wargame program without these things?

If it is true why i can not buy the complete game directly from Battlefront?

i hope to have a reply

bye :confused:

[Moon]

Culex, that information isn't quite correct. The units will be all there, they just MIGHT be named differently for the European version (but definitely will be for the German version).

Martin

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Culex Pipiens:

on Warfare HQ site on the Friday, 12 July, 2002 topic you can read:

"CMBB will be available for purchase online through Battlefront.com (in all countries except the named below) or from their distribution partner CDV Software Entertainment AG which will release a PC version without Waffen-SS units and their notorious copy-protection into Germany, Austria, Switzerland, UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, BeNeLux, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Greece."

So in Italy i have to buy a copy without the SS troops? in italy there is no such law so why i have to buy a wargame program without these things?

If it is true why i can not buy the complete game directly from Battlefront?

i hope to have a reply

bye :confused:

This topic has been dicussed before. Waffen-SS will be included, of course. But they will be called "Waffengrenadiere" and won't bear the SS runes.

It is due to German laws and the Software control board, which might get CDV in trouble if using these unit names and symbols. CDV is the European distributor, but it's a German company, hence they are restricted by German legacy, even if they sell it to other countries like Germany.

[Culex Pipiens]

thanx for the reply

[StarFleet Captain]

Is it TRUE????

Yes, I hate censorship.

[CMplayer]

Culex, several people in the US have offered to act as middlemen, if you wish to buy the unmutilated version and have it sent over. They've posted about it somewhere in the archives.

[Das Reich]

Originally posted by Culex Pipiens:

on Warfare HQ site on the Friday, 12 July, 2002 topic you can read:

"CMBB will be available for purchase online through Battlefront.com (in all countries except the named below) or from their distribution partner CDV Software Entertainment AG which will release a PC version without Waffen-SS units and their notorious copy-protection into Germany, Austria, Switzerland, UK, Ireland, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, BeNeLux, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Greece."

So in Italy i have to buy a copy without the SS troops? in italy there is no such law so why i have to buy a wargame program without these things?

If it is true why i can not buy the complete game directly from Battlefront?

i hope to have a reply

bye :confused:

Culex, I will help you buy the American version and get it shipped to you if you like. email me at vsp36@frontiernet.net

[Dirtweasle]

Just a side note to this - I made a simaler offer to someone but have found the cost of shipping to be prohibitive. If anyone knows of a cost effective shipper to Germany from the U.S. please let me know.

[BeauCoupDinkyDau]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

Just a side note to this - I made a simaler offer to someone but have found the cost of shipping to be prohibitive. If anyone knows of a cost effective shipper to Germany from the U.S. please let me know.

US Postal (Air Mail). Why worry about that anyway? If the person you are helping wants to shell out the big bucks for say, FedEx, that's their business. The way I am doing it is I am ordering for a couple of people, then giving them a total cost of game price and shipping to them (using their method of shipping:I am giving two options: Air Mail and FedEx), then once I get their dough, they get the game. Pretty simple. :cool:

[Redwolf]

Standard mail may hang in customs or slackery post offices for some time. We had private packages takeweeks or even months, amoung them my tax papers (I was near heart attack) and the birthday present for my wife.

I think courier packages are $40 and up, but you would probably gain from sending several games in one package to Germany and have one guy remailing from there. Not that anyone would have that patience... If you package too many games, the package may be considered commercial and VAT and maybe customs will be added. One or two games are definitvly under the radar, the cutoms are overloaded like hell.

There will be no problem with importing this from a legal standpoint (SS names etc.), German customs do not care. Obviously the other European countries even less, except maybe France.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by Moon:

Culex, that information isn't quite correct. The units will be all there, they just MIGHT be named differently for the European version (but definitely will be for the German version).

Martin

Why 'might'??? In all earlier statements was said 'this is a fact, period'. Well, at least I understood it that way, and for each expressed doubt I was beaten with a club.

Twice!!!

[ July 26, 2002, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[Hensworth]

The irony of fate...

You would have thought we made sure Germany was through with telling the rest of Europe what to do in 1945...

So, guess I'm looking for a middleman. Any takers ?

[HawkerT]

Hello you blessed grogs you ...

Very infrequent poster typing with wably fingers facing the horror, ohh the horror, of not knowing the clean undisputed facts about how to obtain the next big thing.

Now correct me if I'm wrong (ohh, I hope so !).

Being a Dane I cannot buy the one thing I would like to own online from the only surviving trustworthy source in the gaming market, Battlefront.com, but instead will have to rely on a German vendor manipulating this fine gem that should not - I repeat - NOT be tinkered with. All this even though I am willing to hack the extra dinero to own the full blown version.

Sorry, just had to get this of my chest.

What happened to the exellent way of delivery that served CMBO so well for us oversea'ers ?

Any answers to this measly post is much appreciated ! Bless you all.

[Scipio]

Sgt_Kelly, in Germany has everyone the freedom to tell his opinion. Except he has one...

HawkerT BTS has revised the game on demand of CDV. BTS said that's a compromise they have to make in the best interest of the European customers, and they hope that way to reach more people in Europe.

A German saying is 'The way into disaster is paved with good intentions'.

[ July 22, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[HawkerT]

Ahh Scipio.

First let me say thanks for your exellent mods and other contributions to this fine community :cool: .

Now I definately hear what you are saying, and of course I agree with any plan concieved by the folks at Battlefront.com, but ... is my assumption correct that I cannot by online from these fine gentlemen just because I live in Denmark ?

Thanks for taking the time to reply

[ July 22, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: HawkerT ]

[Catacol Highlander]

New to this thread, and not an expert on such things, but could a patch not be written for those that have to buy the European CDV version that puts right all the SS names that are to be changed? Surley this would not break any laws... D/l if you wish, not if you dont and everybody including BFC and CDV would be happy

Cheers

Al

[Redwolf]

Hawker, before it gets out of hand, read the previous threads on the issues.

Basically there will be two versions of CMBB:

- US version, uncensored and with non-insulting copy protection, english text only

- multi-language version, edited SS, facist copy protection with to-be-seen consequences

Western europeans customers can only get the multi-language version from CDV. Rest of world can order US version (and probably multi-language version if they want) from BTS. No exceptions. Note that this means Englishmen will be under German opinion protection law this way.

Now, what Moon said above implied that BTS may produce a third version...

- multi-languge, unedited SS, fascist copy protection

...for distribution through CDV to non-Germany Western Europe.

[NOTE: not speaking for BTS, only repeating what BTS stated]

[Scipio]

Originally posted by HawkerT:

Ahh Scipio.

First let me say thanks for your exellent mods and other contributions to this fine community :cool: .

Now I definately hear what you are saying, and of course I agree with any plan concieved by the folks at Battlefront.com, but ... is my assumption correct that I cannot by online from these fine gentlemen just because I live in Denmark ?

Thanks for taking the time to reply

IIRC, they have stated several times that CDV has the exclusive rights to sell CM:BB in Western Europe. BTS is not allowed to import the game into the 'CDV-Area', as well as CVD is not allowed to sell the game outside of this area.

Of course, if you have a good firend in the US, and shipping costs doesn't matter...

Mh, I guess this is the biggest effort in the US-European relations since a long time - so many Europeans surprisingly remember their friends in America

[Panzer Leader]

I am using my non-legal mind to figure this out. It seems to me that CDV refuses (out of fear of breaking their own German laws) to allow the SS in the game. Therefore, if Bigtime released a patch that would allow European (and especially German) gamers to pop the SS back in, and if CDV KNEW aboutr this patch, they would be...what's the word... complicit, therefore liable for any broken laws which may or may not exist.

Now, all that said, Steve G. of Battlefront, said that they would NOT be angry (this is a first) if some hacker was able to produce a crack that put the SS back in. He was very cautious about what he said, but it sounded like in thes SINGLE case, if the code could be tampered with to allow the SS back in, he would not actively fight it.

For a company that fights tooth-n-nail against code-breakers and hackers, this is a big statement coming from Steve, and it shows you subtly how they feel about the incident, that it was unfortunate but couldn't be helped.

There is another big thread a few pages back (locked now) where all this was hashed over in depth. Find it if interested, I'm sure Scipio could point it out

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Alastair Anderson:

New to this thread, and not an expert on such things, but could a patch not be written for those that have to buy the European CDV version that puts right all the SS names that are to be changed? Surley this would not break any laws...

It would break the contract between BTS and CDV. The CDV version will have a harder copy protection scheme, and loading a BTS patch on top of that would of course invalidate the protection.

Whethers law are actually broken is a different matter anyway. The current BTS policy is (and has to be) based on the opinion of lawyers who cannot take a risk and default to be very conservative. German law is not clear enough on that.

Also note that we are talking about a difference of "forbidden" and "indiziert" for Germany. Violent games will be "indiziert". They may be sold to person over 18, but not displayed or advertised. This is a youth protection issue (e.g. DooM). Outright Nazi stuff will be forbidden, this is a opinion control matter, I mean a constitution protection issue (e.g. the original Wolfenstein 3D).

[NOTE: not speaking for BTS]

[ July 22, 2002, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[Scipio]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Hawker, before it gets out of hand, read the previous threads on the issues.

Basically there will be two versions of CMBB:

- US version, uncensored and with non-insulting copy protection, english text only

- multi-language version, edited SS, facist copy protection with to-be-seen consequences

Western europeans customers can only get the multi-language version from CDV. Rest of world can order US version (and probably multi-language version if they want) from BTS. No exceptions. Note that this means Englishmen will be under German opinion protection law this way.

Now, what Moon said above implied that BTS may produce a third version...

- multi-languge, unedited SS, fascist copy protection

...for distribution through CDV to non-Germany Western Europe.

[NOTE: not speaking for BTS, only repeating what BTS stated]

I'm not sure, but I guess the problem with the protection is not it's facist nature (BTW - why facist???), it's just that it causes problems on some CD/DVD drives, so the CD is just not recognized as CD, and the CDV policy about it seems to be that it is not their problem, but the problem of the drive producers.

BTW, I had no problem with a simple copy protection - why should I copy a CD that I have purchased?

[ July 22, 2002, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Scipio ]

[HawkerT]

I'm sorry for being persistant, I definately don't want to be a nuicance, but now you guys got me hanging a bit baffeled in the wind

The statement below is taken from Battlefront.com main page.

European players will find the game in their local retail stores. Besides the original English version, CDV will offer fully localized French and German versions. In Finland, players will be able to purchase the original English game including BOTH the English manual and an additional translated Finnish manual.

Now, while I understand the above full well, I am uncertain about the "original English version" thing. Is the "original English version" = the version sold online at Battlefront.com ?

Answers are much appreciated.

[Scipio]

Originally posted by HawkerT:

I'm sorry for being persistant, I definately don't want to be a nuicance, but now you guys got me hanging a bit baffeled in the wind

The statement below is taken from Battlefront.com main page.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> European players will find the game in their local retail stores. Besides the original English version, CDV will offer fully localized French and German versions. In Finland, players will be able to purchase the original English game including BOTH the English manual and an additional translated Finnish manual.

Now, while I understand the above full well, I am uncertain about the "original English version" thing. Is the "original English version" = the version sold online at Battlefront.com ?

Answers are much appreciated.</font>

[HawkerT]

Scipio

Thanks for your answers :cool:

I dont want to stir the boiling pot, and therefore rests my case.

I will bye what ever they throw at me here in Denmark and hope for a correcting patch if any. Anyway this is not a showstopper

Thank you gentlemen

[ July 22, 2002, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: HawkerT ]

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Scipio:

I'm not sure, but I guess the problem with the protection is not it's facist nature (BTW - why facist???), it's just that it causes problems on some CD/DVD drives, so the CD is just not recognized as CD, and the CDV policy about it seems to be that it is not their problem, but the problem of the drive producers.

It has not been announced what kind of protection that will be exactly, but safedisk is a good guess. That is the same one as on TOAW:CoW from talonsoft.

This protection abuses CD drives in ways not specified in the CD standard. It is not the drive manufracturers fault if these games do not work.

The copy protection crashes your PC when you take the disk out while the game is running. I will have a third CD drive for CMBB, but for most people it will get really annoying answering PBEM moves when you have one drive and two games of this kind. Note that I didn't say it will stop or quit the game. It crashes your computer.

BTW, I had no problem with a simple copy protection - why should I copy a CD that I have purchased?

Backup. A personal backup copy is your right in exactly the countries we talk about, especially Germany. Think about it: it will be the major wargame of these years. Think back, how old are some of the games you replay? I bet that I will take out CMBB 10 years after the release to go through some old times stuff. If the original CD doesn't work by then, will I be able to order a replacement from BTS? Not that it matters since no-CD patches will be relased shortly.

Compatiblity. CMBO works fine in vmware, so I can answer a PBEM move on my FreeBSD laptop without rebooting into Windows. I can do that in TOAW 1. I cannot do that in TOAW:CoW and CMBB, because the stupid copy protection will not work through the hardware layers. And it annoys me that the only reason that this doesn't work is the copy protection.

[ July 22, 2002, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]