Green Hornet Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 What are people experiences with using stone walls for cover ( for infantry ). Seems like every time I try to direct one of my squads to take cover behind a stone wall, they seem to get cut to pieces. Do you have to direct them directly *into* the stone wall or is it enough just to get down behind it? Maybe they're only good for hiding behind. Any thoughts or tips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 You have to be behind the wall, on the wall is highly vulnerable. Plus, if you take too much fire the squad doesn't see the wall as cover and will run to the nearest cover even if it's towards the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 As xerxes points out, the issue is not that the wall dosen't provide cover, it's that the Tac AI dosen't realize that it provides cover. You can effectively hide behind a wall if prone, and it will stop a fair amount of fire. On the other hand, when under fire, the Tac AI only sees that it is in open ground. It will then react as if fired upon in the middle of a football pitch (i.e. flail around looking for cover and generally get mown down). The only real solution is to be in some sort of cover behind the wall. Units in foxholes or some sort of woods but within ~10m to the wall do fairly well. They only 'see' the cover they're in, but the get the benefit of the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hornet Posted August 18, 2002 Author Share Posted August 18, 2002 I see. So, my platoon "hding" behind a stone wall out in the open is actually just "hiding out in the open" from the TacAI's perspective. When the bullets start flying, the TacAI says "Hey I'm sitting out here in the open" and doesn't factor in the fact the the wall can effectively block LOS. Too bad, because sometimes a stone wall could save a few of my squads if they'd learn to hit the dirt behind the wall and just stay there until support arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 Originally posted by Green Hornet: I see. So, my platoon "hding" behind a stone wall out in the open is actually just "hiding out in the open" from the TacAI's perspective. When the bullets start flying, the TacAI says "Hey I'm sitting out here in the open" and doesn't factor in the fact the the wall can effectively block LOS. Too bad, because sometimes a stone wall could save a few of my squads if they'd learn to hit the dirt behind the wall and just stay there until support arrives.If you're on defense, you can still accomplish it since your starting position will give you a foxhole...in open ground you'll get about 50% cover, which may be enough to prevent them from running when they take fire. This can be nice for AT guns...when they take fire, the crew will duck, giving them 100% cover, though not from fire from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 Also, IIRC, a prone unit behind a wall cannot be fired upon at all, be it hiding or cowering. But it may be that you are still able to target it. Not sure anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OG_Gleep Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 Here is the numbers from one of the spread sheets. I don't know who wrote it or I would give due crediit... Also, I am missing the other page, this page is from ranges 300m-400m. I belive the first page was up to 200m. Exposure Chart Wall: Edge of terrain : No Foxhole/29% Foxhole/29% 15m Behind Terrain: No Foxhole/29% Foxhole/29% 25m Behind Terrain: No Foxhole/72% Foxhole/43% 40m Behind Terrain: No Foxhole/72% Foxhole/43% The short range chart had number similar to this if I remeber right. +-10% max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarquon Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 I think the same problems exist with bocage, too. I remember a PBEM where my infantry was lying behind a bocage line. They received fire from tanks and infantry and suddenly, one by one jumped up, crossed the bocage and ran *forward* to the nearest cover - which was full of germans. Needless to say, it was suicide for those two platoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 Originally posted by OG_Gleep: Here is the numbers from one of the spread sheets. I don't know who wrote it or I would give due crediit... Funny you should mention it. They're mine actually. BTW, remember that these percentages are by no means fixed or 100% accurate. But then, I made them to give people a general idea of what cover does what. I've just sent you the complete zip of it, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 One of the best setups for anti tank guns is to put one behind a stone wall, ontop of a hill where its targets will be below the gun. When the tanks take shots at you, they will usually fly right over your head, or hit in front of the wall which provides great cover and concealment to your men. Infantry behind a wall in a foxhole cannot be seen or shot at AFAIK. Chad Harrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hornet Posted August 19, 2002 Author Share Posted August 19, 2002 Great stuff as always, everyone. Thanks for all the information and suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 If you're opponenet uses a wall for cover and you can't target him directly (cause he's a hiding), you can still AREA TARGET the spot with direct HE. In my experience the wall does little to counter the effect of 75mm HE exploding in the immediate vicinity. They do last a LITTLE longer under the barrage, but not that much longer. Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by Gpig: If you're opponenet uses a wall for cover and you can't target him directly (cause he's a hiding), you can still AREA TARGET the spot with direct HE. In my experience the wall does little to counter the effect of 75mm HE exploding in the immediate vicinity. They do last a LITTLE longer under the barrage, but not that much longer. GpigUsually because a round will hit *behind* the wall if I am not mistaken. Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Chad Harrison: Usually because a round will hit *behind* the wall if I am not mistaken. ChadWalls cannot be hit by anything in CM. That's one of the strange effects that happen in CM because a round will never hit anything in flight. This is the same problem as tanks not giving cover to infantry, guns hitting moving vehicles through a hill and friendly tanks being able to shoot through each other. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toran Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by Toran: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />...guns hitting moving vehicles through a hill... DschugaschwiliYou're kidding. Wow. Is it the movment of the vehicles that causes this?[/QB]</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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