Fantastic 'Barbarossa' photos

[Major Jerkov]

Yes, very nice photos and short biography Barry. Also, you should give CMBB a try.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by Barry Geipel:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JaegerMeister:

Bump again for those who may miss it and also thankyou Barry for the great photos and site, i never realised you frequented these forums or i would have praised you earlier! :cool:

I knew they would go down a storm here!

Actually, I was told about this discussion offline. I am a miniature wargammer - not much of a computer gamer. You can see my kind of games at http://www.command-decision.com. I have heard of battlefront, but have never played. Perhaps I will give it a try.

Barry</font>

[Michael Dorosh]

With the re-arming the new sturmgeschutzes in January 1944, we not only got a new name (probably to fool the enemy) but also new gray uniforms in contrast to the SS which wore black uniforms.

The assignment to the front cam in February 1944.

An amazing website and one I have visited often. The only quibble I will point out - and I realize the quote above is from the man himself - but the new uniforms were not to "fool the enemy" - the unit must have changed from a towed anti-tank unit "panzerjaeger" to an assault gun unit "sturmgeschütz". This is borne out by the photos, and the info on page 25, and would account for the new uniform.

Tank crews wore black uniforms in the Army (not just the SS) and assault gun crews wore the field grey sturmgeschütz uniform, as illustrated on page 25.

http://www.geipelnet.com/war_albums/otto/ow_25.html

I have a bit of info on AFV uniforms at my LANDSER web site

Don't know if you're interested or not but thought I would throw it out for your possible use. Other than that, very high quality photos and scans, good captions, and interesting subject matter.

Oh, and regarding your earlier post, you are correct - the Reich Arbeits Dienst (there is some info on them on my Landser site as well) was the labour service all German males were required to serve in as a precursor to military service.

[ December 06, 2002, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[K_Tiger]

The Picture with the deep wading Stug looks on the one side funny and on the other real dangerous....im not so sure i would cross this river in a stug...

[Martin Rapier]

An amazing website and one I have visited often. The only quibble I will point out - and I realize the quote above is from the man himself - but the new uniforms were not to "fool the enemy" - the unit must have changed from a towed anti-tank unit "panzerjaeger" to an assault gun unit "sturmgeschütz". This is borne out by the photos, and the info on page 25, and would account for the new uniform.

In this case it was still the divisional panzerjager battalion though, one of the companies was requipping with Stugs rather than towed guns, which was common in later war infantry panzerjager battalions (as the later reference to Hetzers indicates). There was no 1007th Assault Gun Battalion, but 1st Company, 7th Panzerjager Battalion makes much more sense (although as Otto said, perhaops they were referred to as 1007th Stug Abt to 'fool the enemy'.) Remember abteilung only means 'detachment', there is no reason why a panzerjager abteilung can't have a subordinate Stug abteilung. At least they were lucky enough to get Stugs and not Marders or some lash-up on a captured French chassis.

Cheers

Martin

[Barry Geipel]

There are many errors in the text and in the memories of all veterans. The text on the web site is a direct translation of Otto's captions from his album. Soldiers on the front have a much different perspective that we have. They don't always know the reasons for what is happening around them or even everything about their equipment. I was once talking with Otto about the distance interval keeping lights on the back of his StuG - he had no idea that is what it was for

Other examples of that are in any account of Americans being shot at by a German gun - which amazingly was always an 88 - and any tank encountered was always a Tiger

As for the existance of StuG Abtielung 1007 - It did exist. It is mentioned in the division history for the 7th Infantry Div and is clearly typed on the document for Otto's Iron Cross 1st Class. Iron Cross 1st Class Document

Barry

[JaegerMeister]

Great stuff Barry, can you get hold of more photos/memoirs? I find the 'real' aspect very interesting.

[Dmeek]

Barry is absolutely correct about a veteran’s (or anyone’s, for that matter) selective perspective when it comes to their recollections, which is why these recollections can be fascinating. The fact that Otto thought his uniform was changed to differentiate his unit from the SS offers a pretty intriguing insight into his attitude at the time.

[jgdpzr]

Barry,

I've visited your site before and I think it is fantastic. Thanks for sharing this with us, and thanks for coming here to further comment on it.

Also, since you are a miniatures gamer, you might find Combat Mission more to your liking than the average computer game. This is a tactical simulator like no game before and provides a sense of immersion that should be particularly appealing to someone with a background in miniatures gaming. Your eyes may be opened to what a computer game can really be like. No hexes here, my friend, just a completely immersive 3D battlefield that lets you get down and dirty with your troops. Wargaming paradise, pure and simple. You should try the demo at least, but be forewarned, the demo pales in comparison to the real deal.

Now, I have a question. In your post here you state that Otto's unit received the taperbore 50mm, while on the site you say it is the 75mm taperbore. I'm just curious as to which is correct. I'm not near my resources and I can't recall off the top of my head whether or not there was a 50mm taperbore. Another reason why I'm curious is because I've recently had occasion to play around on one of the very rare 75mm taperbore guns and I was wondering if this was the same type of piece you are referring to here.

Thanks again for putting the work into your site. It really is great!

Edited to add: Looks like page 17 answers my question. That looks like the 75mm taperbore gun I've seen at the Patton Museum.

[ December 06, 2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: jgdpzr ]

[Barry Geipel]

Originally posted by jgdpzr:

Barry,

Looks like page 17 answers my question. That looks like the 75mm taperbore gun I've seen at the Patton Museum.

You are correct - It is the 7.5 cm Pak 41 which is a 75mm to 55mm Taper bore ( I was using the muzzle dimension which I also had off by 5mm.

Otto's unit had great success with this gun while they had ammo for it. The tungsten core ammo was in short supply.

Otto related to me that someone in the division had good contacts with the arms industry which accounted for some of thier better than average equipment. For example, they had the Somua Halftracks to tow their guns while most infantry divisions relied on Krupp Protzes (sp?) They had the Pak 41 while most other div had the 5.0 cm Pak 38 or the 7.5 cm Pak 40. The StuG IV is a relatively rare vehicle - although it is arguably not much better then the StuG III

Barry

[jgdpzr]

Originally posted by Barry Geipel:

You are correct - It is the 7.5 cm Pak 41 which is a 75mm to 55mm Taper bore ( I was using the muzzle dimension which I also had off by 5mm.

Otto's unit had great success with this gun while they had ammo for it. The tungsten core ammo was in short supply.

Otto related to me that someone in the division had good contacts with the arms industry which accounted for some of thier better than average equipment. For example, they had the Somua Halftracks to tow their guns while most infantry divisions relied on Krupp Protzes (sp?) They had the Pak 41 while most other div had the 5.0 cm Pak 38 or the 7.5 cm Pak 40. The StuG IV is a relatively rare vehicle - although it is arguably not much better then the StuG III

Barry[/QB]

Wow, I'd have never thought the taper amounted to a 20mm reduction. That's quite a squeeze.

More interesting information regarding Otto's unit. Good stuff, thanks again!

[MikeyD]

You know you play too much CMBB when you look at combat photos and focus on the background clutter (fences, roads, houses, gullies) instead of the objects in the foreground.

[Cos]

Great site and thanks for sharing.

[-E]

Vehicles, weapons and equipment are being repaired and in the dirty brown water of the Beresina river the soldiers seek recreation."

Pushing vehicles across a river with other naked men is "recreation?" *grin*

[DerZug]

Originally posted by Rex_Bellator:

The site is slow and whoever wrote the text obviously sympathises with the Germans, but bloody hell, those pictures are amazing.

Thanks for the link, well worth spending time there.

Your slow arent you? the guy who took those pictures made the website, hence he's a German verteran why wouldent he be supportive of his commrades?