Wandering Turret Syndrome

[rwf]

I've been playing Combat Mission for a couple weeks now, and in general it's a great game!

However, I have a few problems with the simulated tank behavior. For example, when I was playing the Villers-Bocage Operation as the Germans, my Tigers would often end up rolling down the road with their turrets pointed backwards (this happened for all types of orders: Hunt, Move, and Fast). Apparently the Tiger crew spots some enemy crew members or infantry nearby, or sometimes even an enemy tank several kilometers down the road behind the Tiger, so they decide to rotate the turret around to face the new "threat", despite the fact that they're completely vulnerable to a rear shot. I've lost several Tigers due to this lazy turret problem.

Now if I was commanding a Tiger, I most certainly would NOT rotate my turret to face every measly enemy foot soldier or dazed driver that I encountered along the road, if I knew there were enemy tanks ahead.

Therefore, there should be a tank command which allows a tank to trundle forward while ignoring minor threats such as infantry and panicked crew, or even trucks, half-tracks, and scout cars. Otherwise, my opponents could use silly ploys like running a couple of footsoldiers or fast scout cars past my armor, waiting for my tanks to inevitably rotate their turrets as they follow the decoy units, and then hitting my tanks in the vulnerable rear of the turret.

Robert

[Conscript Bagger]

Hi Robert, and welcome!

Two possibilities here - either nobody will bother to answer your question, or you'll get a ton of responses saying "*yawn* this is old news." Mainly because it is.

Anyway, this was argued over long and hard when the game was first released (often because of the scenario you mentioned) and there were changes to tank behavior in a couple of patches, but I think the consensus is that the current behavior is as good as we'll get with the CM program. Put very simply, your tanks are like babies - if an enemy is out of sight, he's out of mind, and their attention will shift to some other bright shiny object.

[The Commissar]

CMBB will thankfully have most of the features you want to see incorporated into the game. CMBO will unfortunately not be updated with this or any other patch.

[rwf]

Thanks gentlemen! I had a feeling other people encountered the same problem, but was too lazy to wade through thousands of posts.

[zukkov]

i feel your pain rwf! every time i've played that scenario as the german, i bite my nails and hope none of the british tanks hit my side or rear turret. i swear if i was a crew member in witmann's tank, i'd bail out. lol..

[rwf]

Does the Combat Mission v1.12 patch fix the wandering turret problem?

Aside from a patch, there must be some tricks of the trade for keeping a tank's nose pointed in the direction it's moving.

One funny thing about the Villers-Bocage scenario: I kept seeing small yellow dots sailing down the main axis road that stretches across the map. I couldn't figure out what the hell they were. Ball lightning? Departed spirits? Further investigation revealed that a couple of Cromwells were taking potshots at my Tigers, several kilometers down the road (and missing by huge margins).

[Pvt. Ryan]

1.12 does improve the situation, but tanks can still be distracted by distant or relatively unharmful threats. Buttoning up may help keep your tanks pointed in the right direction since they might not see distant targets that are shooting at them. Of course, that reduces your forward visability as well.

[Patgod]

hehe horror story from villers operation:

ok i had 3-4 tiger's moving down the main road into villers, the one that is about 2.5km in distance and has clear LOS to that hill in the back. i was using 3 tigers to keep the large enemy tank force there occupied. well anyway this 1 tommy tank, a cromwell something or other i think(75mm main gun) pops off a round at 1800m(IIRC), getting a rear turret penetration on the lead tiger. i was STUNNED.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by rwf:

Does the Combat Mission v1.12 patch fix the wandering turret problem?

Aside from a patch, there must be some tricks of the trade for keeping a tank's nose pointed in the direction it's moving.

One funny thing about the Villers-Bocage scenario: I kept seeing small yellow dots sailing down the main axis road that stretches across the map. I couldn't figure out what the hell they were. Ball lightning? Departed spirits? Further investigation revealed that a couple of Cromwells were taking potshots at my Tigers, several kilometers down the road (and missing by huge margins).

there's always a work around

try this:

If you want your turret of a turreted AFV facing in a specific direction, use the area target command, but when the game asks you if you want to use main weapon say NO this will fire the co-ax MG in the turret in the direction of the area target and keep your turret and your guys looking for the next big threat in the direction of your choice and all it "costs" is a few rounds of co-ax MG fire.

try it in the scenario of your choice

as far as I can tell this is the only reason I can think of for that question "Use Main Weapon"? Yes/No so just say NO ! and area target with the co-ax mg.

-tom w

[ May 08, 2002, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Patgod]

lol, good idea...though streaming tracers during an advance seems a bit foolish.

"hey look at me!! guys come on look at me!!! i'm over here!!!!"

[SuperSulo]

You can also set an ambush point a bit ahead, that usually keeps the turret in the right direction. You have to have LOS to that point though. It's not perfect (sometimes they turn the turret anyway, ignoring your ambush order), but sometimes it works

[The_Capt]

Gents this is nothing to laugh about..Wandering Turret Syndrom or WTS is a horrible genetic disease which strike down many a young healthy tank well before it's time.

Akin to Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) in humans WTS often is misdiagnosed as overcaution or too much suger in the gastank. But in reality it lies much deeper than that. Many turreted vehicles have a mis-developed turret motor which causes them to track many normally harmless targets.

For example..a lone mortar crew will often be target thru a full 180 degrees by a WTS suffering tank even though said tank is under fire from a King Tiger. First reaction by many is "WHAT THE F8CK IS HE DOING..TURN..TURN...OH **** THE KT IS RELOADED...BLAM...OH THANK CHRIST HE MISSED..TURN YOU PIECE OF...OH CRAP RELOADED AGAIN..."PLINK".."BOOM"...."CRACKLE"...oh crap..stupid bastard got what he deserved."

But what this uninformed gentleman does not know is that a WTS sufferer is helpless against this ravaging disease which will only grow worse over time until the poor tank is targeting blades if grass in the middle of an Axis tank Bn trying to surrender...very sad.

The feelings of guilt and shame felt by these poor vehicles is in describable, they often sink into deep depression. A key symptom is the popping of smoke and slowly reversing away.

Research is under way to help these gentle steel beast of war. WTS can be beaten my friends thru generous contribution and understanding.

Plse send check or money order to

www.helpthecaptsavewtstanksfund.com

So that we can beat WTS once and for all and give these wonderful weapons of war the full lives the deserve.

[rwf]

I'll give the Button Up and Area Fire tips a go. Good suggestions!

Perhaps I should have mentioned that Wandering Turret Syndrome is not to be confused with Tourette's Syndrome, although both may lead to outbursts of foul language as demonstrated by the previous post.

[Jagdratt]

Originally posted by The_Capt:

Gents this is nothing to laugh about..Wandering Turret Syndrom or WTS is a horrible genetic disease which strike down many a young healthy tank well before it's time.

...

Plse send check or money order to

www.helpthecaptsavewtstanksfund.com

So that we can beat WTS once and for all and give these wonderful weapons of war the full lives the deserve.

I certainly hope that forced sterilization is part of your treatment regimen. We can't have these inferior genes infecting the breed - especially in so small a gene pool as that of the exotic cats.

[Conscript Bagger]

Hmm, World War II as a bottleneck event in feline evolution... I like it!