Cemetary Hill (Spoilers)

[Cribtop Gamer]

Hmmm...

As the Germans, are you supposed to be able to "win" this scenario? I moved in good order along the right flank and attacked out of the woods in company strength while the fairly plentiful support elements (gun, MGs, mortars, armored cars) suppressed the trench line.

I chewed up the guys in the front trench caught in my crossfire, but I encountered stiff resistance in superior numbers along the treeline, with more Russians coming to assist.

Since my orders were to probe, I withdrew in good order and called a cease fire, assuming that was the point of the scenario. It's what I would have done in real life in command of a recon unit, fall back, cut the road and wait for heavy support.

The score showed a total defeat for yours truly, entirely because the Soviets still held the flag. Now, I realize that I did a little roleplaying, but I doubt my ability to carry that position with the reinforced company under my command even if I tried (and I'm no newbie).

My question, with no sarcasm - How are you supposed to win this one as the Germans? How did you do it if you did?

[P5]

This was my first scenario that I tried in CMBB...and no I didn't won it. I think it was a major defeat. I will try this sometimes again, because at that time I wasn't used to all these new features. For instance, I didn't use advance or contact orders at all while playing this.

I think the right strategy is to move all the infantry to the right flank. In the wooded area. Then they can start suppress the enemy while few squads sneak to the nearby houses. After that bringing your armored cars closer helps to suppress some more of the Russians.

This is where I got while playing and then the time ran out. I'm always too careful while playing.

After the game I looked the map and the condition of Russian troops and most of the troops near the church were panicked or broken. So if I would have had some more time, I would probably have been able to get into the church and after that it would have been easy.

If, Probably, Maybe...

But I agree, it's not an easy scenario and after the game I thought that if the rest of the scenarios are this difficult, I don't have a chance in this game.

[jonp]

I dont consider myself anymore then average at this game yet I had no problems with this scenario.

I guess I am just lucky.

jonp

[P5]

Luck, probably has nothing to do with this game, well sometimes it does.

But in my case, it would have helped if I would have at least opened the manual and not just rushed into first scenario. Not knowing many changes since CMBO.

You can probably imagine my horror when I saw that things aren't going in a same manner as in CMBO.

Then it was time to take the manual out of the box and come to this forum area.

[tiborhead]

I suffered a minor defeat my first time. After I assessed what went wrong, I came to the conclusion that time is the major factor in this scenario. I waited about two turns too long to begin the assault. To my misfortune, the game ended right on the last turn, electing not to give me a few extra minutes to take the flag. This really blew as I had my assault element in the small houses next to the flag, and had just secured the trenches closest to the starting position.

The Germans have at their disposal everything needed to capture the flag. The 75mm (IIRC) infantry gun is instrumental in ensuring victory. The trick is knowing exactly when to launch the assault across the open into the patch of trees. I suppose the same could be said for any scenario though.

[Chad Harrison]

This was also my first scenario, and I lost it bad the first time. This scenario has been added to my 'deleted off my hard-drive' list. There were quite a few scenarios on the CD that I just do not care for. I am sure that they could be beat through come trickery, but it was not an enjoyable experience. Attacking entrenched troops that outnumber YOU 2 to 1 is not my idea of fun. Played it once, played it twice, and deleted it before I got even mader the third time!

Has anyone else noticed that there were quite a few scenarios on the CD were you are playing against all odds and it was not even fun against the AI? Imagine playing Cemetary Hill against a human opponent?!?!?

Chad

[Arsenal]

Originally posted by Chad Harrison:

Has anyone else noticed that there were quite a few scenarios on the CD were you are playing against all odds and it was not even fun against the AI? Imagine playing Cemetary Hill against a human opponent?!?!?

Chad

Yes, I found quite a few of them to be frustrating and not alot of fun. I had played maybe 15 or so before I came across one I really enjoyed, Eberswalde last stand I think it was called. Before that one I was starting to get a bit disillusioned with them.

Cemetary hill was the first one I tried as well.I got my butt kicked then replayed it 5 or 6 times trying different types of tactics, got frustrated and moved on. I think if I had played it double blind tcp/ip as the germans I would feel a bit set-up.

Just my thoughts, no disrespect to the scenario designers intended.

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by Jazza:

I think if I had played it double blind tcp/ip as the germans I would feel a bit set-up.

I feel very bad for anyone who had that happen to them.

Battle of Minors is a great one by the way for play against the AI or against a human. Real fun, and pretty even matched.

Chad

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Jazza:

Well - the briefing makes very clear that it is an uphill job (no pun intended) for the Germans, telling you that the more experienced player needs to play them, and they need an experience bonus. What else do you want to know? If you don't read it properly, please don't complain.

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but there are people here who appear to have won this straight-out. It is not easy, but it certainly is not unwinnable as Chad seems to insinuate it is.

I guess the next time BTS lets me design scenarios for them, I make sure to make them easy to win for everybody against the AI, that way I won't get any complaints.

Yes, it is a difficult scenario. So what is the problem?

[Chad Harrison]

I was almost hoping that you would not stumble in here Andreas, because I admire your work and did not want you too hear me whine about not being able to win something

Personally, its a matter of taste. There are those who want to win everytime against the AI. There are those who want a good challenge, but they still should win almost everytime against the AI. Then there are those who want a near impossible battle to really test themselves with.

Cemetarty Hill falls under the last category. I still have not beat it. I would put my favorite scenarios into the second group. I like a real good challenge, but I would like to be able to beat it in atleast two tries

It is a very well designed and well made scenario. But it is not easy. So, no offense to you Andreas, and I hope none is taken. Its just a much harder than usual scenario, and not eveyone is looking for that. Heaven knows that I can not make 'em, so I have no room to talk! Keep up the good work.

Chad Harrison

[Foobar]

SPOILERS

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Chad,

I just played this scenario, as I had heard a great deal of talk about it. I strongly belive that, even knowing the map and units, that I would not be able to win this battle outright against a good human player defending that hill.

Against the AI, I decided to avoid that clearing on the right side. It jst looked like a bottle-neck, and a good place to get killed.

I drove my armored cars and halftrack out into the clearing, and had 1 platoon advance up through the wheatfield. My pioneer platoon (which has every cool toy I ever wanted!) snuck up to the edge of the woods, as close to the trenches and buildings as possible. After mortars, MGs, and scout cars were set up in the open, I advanced half-squads (poor buggers) up to the trenches and buildings. As soon as anything shot at them, they were met by overwhelming firepower. As soon as I had a slight foothold at the edge of the trenches, I used the sneak command to crawl a flamethrower across the open, and up to within 30 of the trench and buildings. I proceeded to bbq a few buildings, and insure that I had at least a 30m section of trench that was Ivan free.

After that, I rolled up the Armored cars one at a time, so that they could fire at the church, and at other targets beyond the trench line.

Now a human opponent would not have been so kind as to open fire on my bait teams. A human opponent would have let them come, then fire on the main body as they entered the clearing, and then fall back to positions where the psw's are unable to fire on the so easily...

By the time I had recovered and regrouped from the shock, there would not be sufficient time to invade St Popinski's Orthodox Cathedral..

So in summary, this scenario against a highly skilled human would be absolute hell. Against the AI, its just a matter of suppressing them. Im not sure I would encourage you to 'try' to get good at this tactic. I find that the more I play the AI, the more stupid my assumptions and actions are agaist human opponents.

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*:

SPOILERS

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Im impressed. I tried atleast three different ways, and they did not work out for me. That was the first day that I had the game though. So, now having played for nearly a month, I think that it would be a lot less impossible

That is against the AI. Against a human . . .

[Berki]

I played the battle about 4 times before finally achieving a marginal victory.

Deploying the HT to the right to support the infantry advance was key to victory. Also the AC help destroy the MG pill-box in the center of the town.

[Incognito]

Hell with cemetery hill.

I can't finish even the other Gefectsaufklaerung thinggy and that should be even easier?(I see no complains about that one)

Inf just keep routing or takes too much casualties. Yes I have the "overwatch" teams and I have suppressed the targets, they just comming back. It's totally annoying when heavy building collapses and the mg in it starts to shoot back even if its down to 2 man or so, I really don't know what I'm doing wrong:(

[Guest PondScum]

I've played Cemetery Hill as the Russians via PBEM - yes, you can give out a major whupping [Although my opponent then returned the favor in Gefechtsaufklaerung].

Key weapons for the Russians when played by a human are their mortars - they've got six, four of which are the lovely little 50mm jobs with 60 rounds each. With a couple of double-combat-bonus HQs to spot for them, they turn into armored-car-killers. They can also easily take out the 75mm gun as soon as it reveals itself.

With no armor and no heavy fire support, the German attack evaporates.

[Incognito]

Originally posted by PondScum:

Key weapons for the Russians when played by a human are their mortars

With no armor and no heavy fire support, the German attack evaporates.

Lol even I don't think thats hard on ruskies

Luckilly thou. And yes morts can be "usefull"

But I can't get the thing as germies even when Ártificial Stupidu defends and doesn't use those mortars well.

Well in anycase could someone tell me how to move that inf whithout it getting killed.

I'm willing to a "boot camping" me self in some small scenario. plz plz

[Arsenal]

Well - the briefing makes very clear that it is an uphill job (no pun intended) for the Germans, telling you that the more experienced player needs to play them, and they need an experience bonus. What else do you want to know? If you don't read it properly, please don't complain.

I'm not complaining, just stating my experiances and yes I did read the briefing properly. When a briefing says it's designed for tcp/ip play, to me that means it is balanced so that either side has a chance to win.IMO even with the more experianced player using the germans I don't think the german side has a chance to win vs a human, not the first time around anyway . That is why I said I would feel setup. But thats just me, others may disagree and thats fine.

I guess the next time BTS lets me design scenarios for them, I make sure to make them easy to win for everybody against the AI, that way I won't get any complaints.

Well, I think you should keep designing them the way you like to and not worry about complaints because in the end it's all just a matter of peoples tastes. You can't please all of the people all of the time right?

[Bone_Vulture]

I'd just like to clarify - does the firepower bonus of a HQ team contribute to the effectiveness of the mortar teams under it's command? Does it mean that the mortars fire with more accuracy?

[Eden Smallwood]

HI!!!!!!!!

My name is Eden Smallwood, and I am a GOD of Cemetery Hill!!!

That's right, I got a ***DRAW****! Whew! Smokin'!!

I managed to get all my vehicles to that point just inside the roadblock on the right, and they're ready to wreck havoc. But that took a mighty long time, and at turn 20, why... Game Over, Dude. If there were a small flag on each side, we could get a few Sudden Death turns, but there's just that big one... Dang!

Eden

[antawar]

You think you're a god... I got a tactical victory as the germans.. 1 more turn and it would have been a total victory (didn't have the time to destroy the bunker with satchel charges.. thus the church position remained a ? robbing me of a total victory)

[yapma]

i thought this scenario was a lot of fun.

for what it's worth, i suffered a major defeat as germans the first time i played, and a major victory the second time.

[Agua]

yapma,

Since this thread was created for spoilers, tell us how you did it.

[yapma]

ok.

2 armored cars approach from the front and take out the machine gun nest nestled in the church.

the pionier and 37 mm halftrack assault from the right once the nest is kaput.

machine guns and infantry gun along with the other 2 companies lay down withering cover fire.

pioneer (how do you spell this? this is sad) company gets into the trenches. then, the infantry gun lays down smoke, the two companies in the scattered trees advance into the trenches.

the russian unit that gave me the only real problems was the HQ in the top floor of the church.

[Agua]

Okay, thanks, and congrats. Nice job. I've tried similar and the PSWs skulking up to the front get taken out by the AT guns.