Is a blitzkrieg tactic likely to work ?

[Thin Red Line]

I'm starting a PBEM on a custom designed map : a river in a valley , a village crossed by the river in the bottom of the valley , with a stone bridge in the middle of the village.

Each side has one side of the river as set-up zone, 4 VLs in all, 2 on each part of the village.

It's a valley, so the LOS is pretty good on opponent territory, except for the streets of the village.

I have a battalion of german rifles + half a dozen of tanks and i was wondering if i could try to cross the bridge with most of my force at the very beginning of the game, supported by a lot of MGs and tanks and covered by offboard smoke, storm the other bank by surprise and hold the position (the village) from the very first turns. (i can offer to do a small reco mission on turn 1-2).

Did somebody tried this kind of tactics ? Is this likely to be successful in CM ?

[The_Capt]

Well first off what you are describing is not "blitzkrieg" per say...

However, the first question I would ask is "How many crossings are there on this river". If the bridge is the only one, you are in for a very painful experience if this is an att-def situation. Your opponent will dig into the Village on both sides of the bridge, in hard to reach places and wait. If he/she has any TRPs and Arty they will also be targeted at this point.

Smoke is your best bet but I would mix in a healthy dose of Heavy HE. Then push a Coy to take control of the friendly side of the village and bridge. Then move up an assault coy and use your mortars to lay smoke while you try and bang across. Send Pl first, they are going to get mauled but their job is to force your opponent to show his people by way of shooting at you. You can then adjust arty and direct fire to counter.

Do not foret to smoke the flanks, this will prevent FOs from having direct LOS to the bridge.

Once you get a Coy across, use your last coy and some armour to breakout and go for whatever objectives are in depth.

There is nothing fancy about this kind of fight and it comes down to highly coordinated firepower at this point. Good Luck.

[Redwolf]

Blitzkrieg would be if you waited for an Airplane to demolish some defenses, kill some AT guns with mortars, smallarms or StuGs, know there are no Bazooka-class weapons and then drive your tanks around a flank through some gap, destroy the enemy artillery, ammo dumps and kitchens and then wait for him to collapse.

Is your seconario a meeting engamenent or is the other side already in postions with LOS to the bridge? What kind of cover is directly at the bridge at the other side of the river? Can you post a screenshot?

[JasonC]

The military term for what he wants to try is "coup de main". But it only works against light opposition and with surprise, when the blow is delivered before the enemy can react. That will not be the case here, since you say LOS is good across the valley and the enemy has the whole opposite bank as a set up zone.

If you try to rush the village like that, smoke might even get many of your men in, but you would still lose badly. Artillery would drop on your bunched up forces at the one predictable spot just beyond the bridge site. You infantry would be broken by this. The smoke must eventually clear, and then your tanks would be left with only shattered infantry support in a built up area, easy for the enemy infantry to push back out with converging attacks.

There is little reason to fight from inside the village on the opposite side, anyway. It means fighting facing in all directions, thus exposing several sides to AT weapons. It means fighting bunched, thus a great target for artillery fire. The conditions of the inevitable fight between the rival forces would thus be poorer, not better, on the other side of the river.

The control of the bridge is going to be decided by a firefight between the opposing forces, not the other way around. It is not like rapid possession of the bridge would put you in command of dominating terrain, make it impossible for the enemy to counterattack effectively, etc. So the fight is going to turn on who destroys the bulk of the enemy force by fire, first. Whoever does so will be left with enough to cross the bridge, by suppressing all remaining shooters while a modest force (at first) crosses.

This is brought about by (1) the presence of roughly equal forces on both sides (2) both sides already being present, with set up zones covering their own side of the river (3) the valley terrain making fire dominant over maneuver, by providing wide LOS from many locations, and (4) the river itself making offensive maneuver nearly impossible without prior preparation by fire.

The bridge is not an exception to all of that. It is just a nice point-target trap for anybody who tries to cross it prematurely. The area right around it - on either side, it hardly matters which - is a good kill zone. Bottled up, converging fires, limited room, limited maneuver, small artillery target, broken LOS lines for those right in the village, etc.

Prepare for a simple firefight to exchange off the enemy force beyond the river. Try to get the best conditions for that exchange to take place on favorable terms. Be ready to use arty and converging fires to kill any enemy that cross at the bridge too soon.

*After* you have run the enemy out of forces, you can think about crossing the river. The conditions for a coup de main attempt instead - surprise, limited intel and LOS, lopsided forces initially, tactically dominant terrain to seize that is easier not harder to defend if seized - do not exist here.

[Sarge Saunders]

TRL,

**grin** I had hoped to get my comments in here before JasonC, whose detailed comments are borne from CM experience. Alas, listen to him if you don't want to have your force mauled badly.

Nevertheless, here are some thoughts:

Bridges and roads are quite open terrain and infantry will break and retreat while exposed to small arms fire in the crossing. Bravery and command bonuses help get your guys across the bridge. Also, plenty of smoke (~100 rounds 81mm)is the only way to get across the bridge. Infantry loaded onto HTs can help get guys across the bridge too (under smoke cover) but the HTs have a very short life expectancy under these conditions.

Your supporting MGs and mortars won't have much to shoot at in preparaion for the crossing if your opponent hides in ambush mode (area fire only). Maybe they'll have something to shoot at on turn 2 of the crossing, but many infantry can be made to suffer in the first turn of a bridge crossing.

Heavy artillery suppression before hand could help, but only at certain points where you think the enemy may be waiting.....

....Now this is all assuming you actually would be better off on the other side of the river. JasonC's point is that once across you'll have to expand the bridgehead immediately or face bunched up forces that are vulnerable to enemy artillery.

If your opponent has any brain cells, then they will realize you are crossing in force and bring all their firepower to your current point (remember that the only withdraw available to you is now back across the bridge and open terrain).

So, take a few turns to recon with a squad or two to spot enemy and possibly get some trigger happy grunt to shoot at you, thus revealing their position. Any known positions get heavy arty and lot's of smoke. Any supected positions get smoked. The bridge gets smoked heavily. The area past the bridge gets smoked heavily. Heavy and light arty strikes area fire just beyound where you'll have your forces once across the bridge.

Do all of this before you even cross. After that....you may be dead anyway, but at least you will be across somewhat intact hopefully.

Sarge Saunders

[ March 26, 2002, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Sarge Saunders ]

[TSword]

Not to be forgotten,

There's no smokescreen on the water !

So to protect the bridgecrossing from flanking fire, you need to smoke the other side of the river some length up the rivershore on both side of the bridge (Expensive !!)

You should have bonus points (If you are the attacker), since the task for the attacker is very hard, if this is the sole route over the river.

[Thin Red Line]

First, thanks to all of you.

You're right , blitzkrieg is not the appropiate term here, i used it in the litteral meaning (a sudden and brutal attack based on surprise). Coup de main is far better describing my original idea, not to mention it's in my native language, as you've guessed.

I'm sorry i've no clue how to post a screenshot of the map, althought i realize it would help.

It is a ME type battle (both sides are equivalent in size, i.e. 2000 pts) but the difference with a QB is that we can start very close to each other, separated only by the river and the bridge ( if both sides decide to set-up forces near to the river). And the 4 flags are close together, 2 big in the village each side of the bridge, 2 small a little bit uphill on a road perpendicular to the river axe.

There is actually another way to cross the stream, some fords among tall pines on my right aisle. But nothing easy as an ambush would catch the crossing troops exposed in water and swamps.

I'm pretty convinced by analysis done : crossing the bridge early would't give me any decisive advantage and would put my forces at high risk.

So i have to find a way to oblige my opponent to expose its main assets so i'll be able to destroy them before any attempt by my troops to cross the river and conquer the opposite bank.

Cheers

[ March 26, 2002, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

[vbfg]

I'm both English and a newbie so know only a little about both these things, but isn't this like Antietam but with direct fire HE and 105mm arty?

[Patgod]

half squad over that ford just to make sure he has it ambushed. yeah sure you will have to send a letter or 5 home, but if he HASNT got forces protecting that, you may have a way to skrew his pooch royally.