Tanks are VERY effective against infantry...

[Generale_Pasquini]

Hey,

I don't know if any of you noticed how strong tanks are against infantry this time...

I was playing a QB italian/German vs Russians and my men where laying low in thick woods. All of a sudden a T-34 (I believe the blast was 49) comes by and I engaged my men because they all had anti-tank weapons... the t-34 shoots at one sqaud and eliminates all 10 men!!! I have never seen this happen in CMBO. Then it turns around and from about 100m it takes out two more entire squads!!! thats 27 men in three shots!!!!!

Crazy stuff, any thoughts...

[Phantom Captain]

canister

[Nippy]

Originally posted by Lord Dragon:

canister

How does the Canester round work? Is it like a big shotgun shell for the T-34's main gun?

[86smopuim]

yes, big shotgun like round. watch one when it fires, its neat-o.

[Phantom Captain]

And very deadly as you have recently found out.

Watch a shot from your men's perspective. It's devastating.

[Dowarisch]

It contains a few thousand metal balls, bit like the frag load on some grenade types.

I had a T-34 fire at 3 infantry squads in a narrow street, after 1 shot only a few panicked survivors were left.

[Generale_Pasquini]

Hey,

That might explain a few things. I saw no crater in the ground or anything, just my men being vaporized Also the blast (noise) was different from a normal HE, or AP shell...

[Phantom Captain]

Yep.

[Nippy]

Originally posted by Dowarisch:

It contains a few thousand metal balls, bit like the frag load on some grenade types.

"00" Buckshot chambered in 76.2mm...nice

*Nippy invisions duck hunting with Canster loaded T-34*

[Leeo]

Can you say "ranged Claymore?"

[Phantom Captain]

"00" Buckshot chambered in 76.2mm...nice

*Nippy invisions duck hunting with Canster loaded T-34*

That is funny! Could be a new hobby mmm? Now if only you can get your hands on a T-34! Imagine explaining that one. "You are duck hunting with what?? Let me see your license."

I don't know what size the actual contents of the canister would be though? Are they small caliber or more golfball size like civil war canister? Anyone know?

[Dowarisch]

From what I know they are rather small, like small calibre shells. Probably not more than 4 mm in diameter, its the sheer number which creates the devastating effect.

So just imagine you take your T-34 out for duck hunting, after firing a canister in a swarm of ducks you wouldn´t find much more than a few feathers, not much left to make dinner out of.

I will try to dig up some more technical stuff about this matter.

[Pud]

Im still waiting for CMBB so I cant check, does only the T34 have this round or is it found on all soviet tanks. Did/do the germans get something similar after seeing its effects?

[mike the wino2]

Download the demo. I know, I know it takes three days but it is worth it to see the new changes. In "Yelnia Stare" only a couple of the tanks have canister but it is really nice.

Oh, Generale_Pasquini , have you seen the SturmTiger in action yet? If not, then try a QB against one and see how you fare.

Or just read the SturmTiger thread.

[86smopuim]

Originally posted by Pud:

Im still waiting for CMBB so I cant check, does only the T34 have this round or is it found on all soviet tanks. Did/do the germans get something similar after seeing its effects?

I had a stug with cannister. Other units I do not know.

[Dowarisch]

It´s real hard to find any useful info on canister rounds, probably bacause many would consider this an "ugly" weapon. The US army ceased to use it as a tank round after Vietnam, but there it was VERY effective against human wave assaults.

In CMBB only few vehicles got it, on German side the PzIIIN, PzIVD + F version and on Soviet side all T-34 models with the 76.2 mm maingun, maybe some more, I´m not going to check every vehicle in the game now.

[Barticus]

Originally posted by Nippy:

[QB

*Nippy invisions duck hunting with Canster loaded T-34*[/QB]

Sorry Nippy, already been done

I've seen punts that the old timers ('round here) called 'duckfoot punts'. Basically, picture 6 to 10 2 gauge shotgun barrels laid out in the bottom of a shallow punt, like the fingers of a spread out hand. The object was to paddle out early in the morning, catch a flock of ducks sitting on the water, and get as many as you could in one shot. Apparently these were used only by professional hunters, or so I am told.

B

[Generale_Pasquini]

Oh, Generale_Pasquini , have you seen the SturmTiger in action yet? If not, then try a QB against one and see how you fare.

Mmmm, I think I'll try that, I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing one of these charging down towards my troops

[JasonC]

"The US army ceased to use it as a tank round after Vietnam"

Oh, they still exist. The next generation of them were the flechette rounds (5000 13-grain small steel arrows per round e.g. in M494 105mm APERS-T), and recent developments include APAM tank rounds with 3000 small metal cubes inside 6 submunitions. The army has called for a 105mm canister type anti-personnel round for a 105mm MGS meant for the medium brigade gun system.

Here is the solicitation of proposals for the new 105 -

http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2002/03-March/17-Mar-2002/FBO-00043645.htm

Here is a current industry APAM link -

http://www.gd-ots.com/site_pages/directf/apam_scroll.htm

Here is a company in Chicago ready to supply the 70s era M494 105mm flechette rounds, built if ordered -

http://www.geocities.com/lgi60637/00998.html

Here is a Jane's article about Israeli use of M494 105mm APERS-T -

http://www.janes.com/regional_news/africa_middle_east/news/jdw/jdw010522_2_n.shtml

Not so hard to find information about them, after all...

[Creeper1]

greetings,

It was my understanding that the Soviets used old ball bearings to make canister rounds. The OD mm diamiter differed with every shot.

I was surprised to see one of my early STUGG's using this in a QB. I knew what it was instantly after seeing the graphic. messy, messy weapon.

[Dowarisch]

Hehe..JasonC seems to have a lot more insight into the topic than me. I also read about the new generation of flechettes, must be nasty stuff.

[KiwiJoe]

Playing the demo I also noticed how wicked these rounds were. A whole squad in heavy woods cut down by 1 shot. Now I dont know much at all about these rounds - but I would have thought hiding behind a solid tree trunk would have completely negated the effect of thousands of small steel balls being fired at you. ??? I cant see how they would penetrate more than an inch or so of wood.

[ex PFC Wintergreen]

Originally posted by JasonC:

"The US army ceased to use it as a tank round after Vietnam"

Oh, they still exist. The next generation of them were the flechette rounds (5000 13-grain small steel arrows per round e.g. in M494 105mm APERS-T), and recent developments include APAM tank rounds with 3000 small metal cubes inside 6 submunitions. The army has called for a 105mm canister type anti-personnel round for a 105mm MGS meant for the medium brigade gun system.

My father was a tank platoon commander in Korea and has often stated what a difference cannister (and night vision goggles) would have made when the Chinese came into the war in November 1950. I seriously doubt that the U.S. Army will ever forget that lesson.

[Earl]

Had the opportunity to fire a 105mm How. with the early 1980's equivalent of canister during a live firex. At maybe 150 meters a couple of small/medium trees went down. Made enough of an impression that I still remember it 20 years later. OBTW, a M2 50 cal MG also reduces tree lines fairly easily.

[Redwolf]

Anybody knows whether the typical round could penetrate a steel helmet?

The whole weapon sounds to me like only effective when the enemy is halfway visible and I assume that a soldier in a foxhole with its head down (helmet to shooter) would be pretty safe from this round.