i hate slow turrets

[Chad Harrison]

i would say that anyone who has played any engagement that involved armor in this game has learned quickly how important turret rotation speed can be. CM does a good job of representing in a realistic manner the disadvantage that brought the heavy german cats. heres my beef though, when will they ever decide what to shoot at?

for example: i had a tiger in a nice and cozy HD position against US forces. a halftract comes into LOS and he ofcourse targets it and begins to turn his turret (no other units in LOS at the time). after turning 90+ degrees to fire at the moving HT, a light tank comes into view. so he swings his turret over 135 degrees to engage the tank. but wait! a killer US rifle squad shows up right in front at 100+ meeters!!! since all rifle squads were equiped with LAW's back then, or even a targeting laser for an apache or warthog, the tank then targets them and is destroyed before he ever even fires once between the three targets! :mad:

so heres my question: is there a way to make your units with slow turrets engage targets faster? i tried a lot of different things, and not much has worked (like targeting a tank OUT of LOS before it move INTO LOS). any suggestions would be helpful.

[Warmaker]

An unbuttoned tank can detect, assess, and engage a threat more effectively. The tank commander can make a better judgement with a good field of vision.

A buttoned up tank has a severe vision problem. This means threats will be detected much slower, if at all. A good crew can limit this liability though.

Another way is to use the ambush command to basically guess. However, armor sometimes tend to ignore threats that suddenly pop up in an undesirable direction if they're stuck in an ambush command.

[Chad Harrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warmaker:

Another way is to use the ambush command to basically guess. However, armor sometimes tend to ignore threats that suddenly pop up in an undesirable direction if they're stuck in an ambush command.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

has anyone had much success with this method? that is one that i have not tried. i look forward to the new "two point covered arc" command that will be included in CM:BB, but for now, ambush does seem to give our electronic heros tunnel vision. succes for anyone?

[Barticus]

I have never had any luck (of the good sort, anyway) with the ambush command. I find it more profitable to use terrain to limit your tank's LOS. This way it will only have one or two targets to choose from, and only have to turn the turret a very limited amount to do so.

[Chad Harrison]

what would be nice is if your could give your tank an "armour" priority command that would make your tanks target only armour, unless infantry got close enough to be an effective tank buster. for german armour, the GI's had to get VERY close. allied armour did not have that luxury. has anyone heard anything along those lines for CM:BB?

[Captain Turrets]

I think this thread has gotten a little off track. I don't think you should be talking about turet's like that in a FU%KIN$ public message board. I mean, SH*T! FU#K I hate when people make fun of a uncontrolable condition like that PUSS^Y DAMN CRAP FU#K when they don't even know anything about it.

:eek:

[Chad Harrison]

since captain turrets decided to make those comments i am reminded of when i played football. there were always those players who showed up for one day, talked trash to everyone about how good they were, and then never showed up again. captain turrets was kind enough to make a new account, share his pitiful attempt to sound smart or whatever and proboably never show his face again. what was that thing BTS said about mature gamers being here? if you don't like what is being said, let it be and go on with your ever so important life.

[Sergeant Saunders]

I recently had my only semi-successfull AFV vs AFV ambush. 3 Churchill AVRE's immobilized a Tiger, but they all died from the Tiger's return fire that same turn.

My best results so far have been simular to above suggestions. I try to keep the Germans at looong range. They tend to have better guns and long range tends to shrink the arc need to rotate.

[Soddball]

That was damn funny, Captain Turet's. LOL. Whoever the F*** SH*** N*B W**K etcetcetc you are

[Chad Harrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soddball:

That was damn funny, Captain Turet's. LOL. Whoever the F*** SH*** N*B W**K etcetcetc you are <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

:eek: look! i just got my first flame! i am so excited!!!!! i now get to go rush home and tell my wife what a fun time i had at work today with my new flames!!!

soddball and whoever the turret guy where, thanks for enlightening the chat! how bout a game sometime? no, seriously, give me an IP address and id like to play either of ya. atleast you could beat me on the field then eh?

[Doug Beman]

What I find interesting is that the Germans actually deleted power traverse on the PzIVJ to make room for additional fuel tanks. I wouldn't mind, in CM, having a H-model just to get turret speed up.

DjB

[Scott B]

Chad, don't worry about them. As best I could tell, they were making an off-color joke about a nervous system (I think) disorder; some might consider it in bad taste, but I don't believe they were seriously criticizing you. Even if they were, it shouldn't matter - thick skin can only help you in this forum.

With regards to turret speed, and getting your tank to engage the targets you want it to, that basically comes from a mix of experience and luck. I've had good results with the Tiger through maneuver - I try to keep it in a position where it will be inclined to engage the targets I want it to (restricting what it can see, and conversely what it can be seen by), and in doing so you can use the faster turning speed of the vehicle to your advantage.

Another tip is in keeping your opponents at arms-length; the farther your targets are away, the less difficulty (to some extent) you'll have due to slow turret rotation. This applies to any of a number of allied vehicles as well - the M10 Wolverine sticks out in my head as a major example.

And sometimes it just doesn't work. Your tank crews don't see the battlefield the same way you do-- they engage threats as they see them, depending on any number of factors. And they may not even react logically sometimes; in the absence of relative spotting and vehicle morale, you're still sort of getting the benefit of the doubt.

Scott

PS: As a loyal Star Wars fan, I can't help but nitpick your sig - the line is:

VADER: When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.

BEN: Only a master of evil, Darth.

You can check it out at this link if you like.

[Chad Harrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

VADER: When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master.

BEN: Only a master of evil, Darth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dang scott your right! its good to see another star wars fan to here playing the ultimate in wargaming. missing the WORD for WORD on that quote is what comes from never reading the script ANYWHERE, just watching the movie a million times!

i have had success with you suggestions, it mostly works. BTW, are you up for a PBEM? im looking for some new competition. post here or drop me a line if your up to it!

[Banshee]

You may hate slow turrets, but I really dislike fast shells

[Warmaker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banshee:

You may hate slow turrets, but I really dislike fast shells <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aah, an Allied tanker eh? Those long barrelled 75 and 88mm guns send shells QUITE fast...

I also suggest the earlier suggestion of using terrain to limit the LOS for your slow turreted panzers. A quick example is posting your behemoth King Tiger between 2 large heavy buildings while it looks down the main road to challenge anything stupid enough to show its head. Another way is to position it where flanking it is impossible due to terrain features. Tall woods are good for this, only infantry can pass and negates any worry of any armor flanking you from that direction. Also, the tall woods basically blocks any LOS for sneaky flank shots... sorry buddy, take me on by the front!

Forcing an Allied player to engage you to your heavier panzers' strengths is an art in itself. Protecting your pricey panzer investments is an even better one...

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: Warmaker ]

[Soddball]

Yes, Chad, it was a joke about Turet's Syndrome - where people swear uncontrollably and for no reason - a bit like Metallica

Captain Turret's account was clearly just a joke in that vein - and it was DAMN funny for a twisted sense of humour.

Sorry if I pulled the thread off-topic - but I couldn't resist myself when I saw a line like that.

I can't play TCP/IP (56k modem in the UK, sucky sucky love you long time connection) but I don't mind adding another chalk line to my "People I got whupped by" blackboard if you will do PBEM.