Is it possible to score a armor kill with gun area targeting ?

[Thin Red Line]

Say there is a patch of wood, or scaterred trees with ennemy armor hidden behind (not in LOS).

Can you use an AT assets (AFV or gun) to area target the place, in hope to get a lucky shot if the shell comes through the obstacle ?

I mean , is the game engine able to handle a armor kill without the red target line ? Or is it just a waste of ammo ?

Well, that is my question.

[Nolloff]

I´d say yes but most likely only the blast damage and not a "real" armor penetration. But I assume it must be something massive, like a 150mm field howitzer piece, a SU152 gun or an 88 to have the blast damage a tank.

In the Clash of Titans II scenario from Boots and Tracks I was curious to see the impact of the Sturmtiger weapon and targeted a spot not too far away from one of my own Jagdpanthers or even Jagdtigers. It got knocked out.

Nolloff

[ October 23, 2002, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Nolloff ]

[Joques]

Originally posted by Thin Red Line:

Say there is a patch of wood, or scaterred trees with ennemy armor hidden behind (not in LOS).

Can you use an AT assets (AFV or gun) to area target the place, in hope to get a lucky shot if the shell comes through the obstacle ?

I'd assume that Area Fire is HE only? So if the shell hits or lands close to an AFV, then regular HE vs AFV mechanics apply. Am I wrong?

[Argh, those darn typos! ]

[ October 23, 2002, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Joques ]

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by Joques:

I'd assume that Area Fire is HE only? So if the shell hits or lands close to an AFV, then regular HE vs AFV mechanics apply. Am I wrong?

That's precisely what i'm wondering too. I've no doubt about the blast effect, it works, but what about hit, penetration etc. ? Anyone ?

So far my experiences in CMBO gave nothing, or only upset enough the hidden tank to make him reply and shoot my asset...

[Agua]

Originally posted by Thin Red Line:

That's precisely what i'm wondering too. I've no doubt about the blast effect, it works, but what about hit, penetration etc. ? Anyone ?

[Thin Red Line]

Agua

I think it would fire HE most probably. Sure, it is a limitation to this tactic but even a HE can kill a lightly armored AFV.

Your example shows the engine doesn't need a target to score a kill.

What kind of message did you get when you scored the kill ? Did you get the penetration message ?

[Agua]

TRL,

It's been so long ago I don't remember. I don't recall seeing a penetration message, but I just don't have a clear enough memory to comment.

[demoss]

The penetration message isn't necessarily that helpful if HE is involved. I just saw a "front upper hull hit - no serious damage" from a KV-2 which actually knocked out the target Pz III with that shot... maybe because the bonehead crew had unbuttoned.

[Joques]

Originally posted by demoss:

The penetration message isn't necessarily that helpful if HE is involved. I just saw a "front upper hull hit - no serious damage" from a KV-2 which actually knocked out the target Pz III with that shot... maybe because the bonehead crew had unbuttoned.

Well, a 150mm HE shell should be able to rattle a PzIII, even if it was buttoned.

[demoss]

Well, a 150mm HE shell should be able to rattle a PzIII, even if it was buttoned. [smile]

No argument there, but there's a big difference between "no serious damage" and "knocked out."

[Joques]

Originally posted by demoss:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Well, a 150mm HE shell should be able to rattle a PzIII, even if it was buttoned. [smile]

No argument there, but there's a big difference between "no serious damage" and "knocked out."</font>

[Frunze]

I once killed a halftrack (sorta kinda an AFV, right?) with an 88 this way in CMBO. It was just out of LOS, and took several shells. I'm pretty sure the gun was firing HE. First the halftrack was immobilized, then it was abandoned.

There were no penetration messages, and I don't think I got any direct hits. Seems to me the odds of getting a direct hit with area fire are not high.

[ October 23, 2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Frunze ]

[demoss]

Am I imagining things, or have I read some comments on this forum about how HE knockouts are reported inaccurately by the game? Like seeing "no serious damage" when the AFV was actually knocked out?

Well, since I just posted exactly that, and you obviously read it (since you quoted it), I'd say that about answers your question.

[Flesh]

Well, in CMBO, I once killed a Cromwell and a Daimler with a single HE shot from a Hummel. The Hummel has a 150mm gun.

So, I would say that if you were to area fire HE from a 150mm gun, you would stand at least a slight chance of either killing or immobilising a nearby AFV.

[gredeker]

I know it isn't direct-fire HE, but I once took out three :eek: Hellcats with one 105 arty round. They were all next to a small stand of woods, the incoming shell just grazed the edge of the woods, got an airburst detonation, then {poof} three dead Hellcats.

Luckiest arty shot I've ever had in a game. That FO definitely deserved a decoration.

[Slappy]

I've seen rounds kill vehicles other than those targeted, and I've read a post in the last two weeks claiming an AFV kill from a ricochet. There are numerous reports of kills through buildings.

My guess is that anything is possible, the question is how likely?

You may well be able to do this, but that dosen't mean that it is to be done. The chances are pretty small.

As others have mentioned, there is no way to make an area fire command fire AP (although it will if you have no HE), so this may well be a waste of ammo and time.

[Joques]

Originally posted by demoss:

Well, since I just posted exactly that, and you obviously read it (since you quoted it), I'd say that about answers your question.

Oh, I didn't realize that was what you said / meant. But this _is_ a consistent thing though? Must be a feature then, and not a bug.

[Dschugaschwili]

Originally posted by demoss:

[...] there's a big difference between "no serious damage" and "knocked out."

"hit, no serious damage" should be read as "no penetration, no visible damage done". Damage by internal armor flakking is only displayed to the owner of the target for obvious reasons.

Dschugaschwili

[demoss]

"hit, no serious damage" should be read as "no penetration, no visible damage done". Damage by internal armor flakking is only displayed to the owner of the target for obvious reasons.

No argument there either. I was the owner of the target. The "no serious damage" resulted in three dead crewmembers. I suppose it's possible that I would have gotten a different message if they'd been buttoned up - but there was no death clock, the two survivors immediately bailed.

[Cameroon]

There was a posting not long ago about how crews could literally be driven crazy by the constant ringing of many non-penetrating hits.

Since casualities in-game do not represent just kills, but anything that makes the soldier incapable of continuing, I think we might be seeing something similar with the tank crews.

Even if they weren't driven crazy, perhaps they're unconscious, or otherwise injured from bouncing around inside after a 15 cm HE shell explodes against their hollow metal shell . And if the hardware (tank) is fine, then we'd not see a message.

I was forced to do this to a number of PzIIIs with a KV-1 in a certain scenario, after I ran out of AP rounds. It worked just fine