reinald@berlin.com Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 As noted in a recent thread before, the CDV version has a translation bug that at least for me caused a lot of confusion. Beyond a Marder, Lynx and a Puma are hull down towards an Allied gun. An what does the game say instead of 'hull down' ("Wanne verdeckt" or sumpin along that line), is display WANNE KAPUTT = hull destoryed. Pah, CDV. They got not the least bit of a grip on military English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 That is quite funny. Guess they took the "down" to mean broken. These guys are high speed tech types, right? So they know that when a server goes down or a website goes down... Someone needs to tell them to get a copy of The Military Eizen. It has an entry for Hull Down Position. Eizen translates it as Tauchstellung (eines Panzers). Has kind of a U Boot ring to it. anyway, they should change it to In Tauchstellung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Blödsinn. I have never seen the term "Tauchstellung" used in any actual German military works, neither from WW2 nor modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: Blödsinn. I have never seen the term "Tauchstellung" used in any actual German military works, neither from WW2 nor modern.So what do actual German military works suggest then? 'Wanne kaputt' is definitely wrong, 'Wanne verdeckt' sounds a bit better,'Tauchstellung' is the best yet IMO. But I do wonder what real-life German tankers use... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 "Teilverdeckte Stellung". There's probably a shorter term to shout around inside the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: "Teilverdeckte Stellung". There's probably a shorter term to shout around inside the tank.Thanks Redwolf. This thread makes you wonder why they didn't draw on the expertise of the community for the localisation, at least for the interface...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Well, I can't say that I've ever seen the term Hull Down in any WWII text, nor any German equivalent. The reference that give Tauchstellung for hull down position is from 1957. The Bundeswehr had been around all of 2 years at that point. Given the number of wehrmacht veterans in Bundeswehr, I think there is every posibility that Tauchstellung is the correct doctrinal term. There could be a more colloquial slang term as well, but I've never seen it. edit: BTW, what does the CDV version of CMBB say for the Seek Hull down order? Wanne kaputt machen? [ December 11, 2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: RMC ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Originally posted by RMC: BTW, what does the CDV version of CMBB say for the Seek Hull down order? Wanne kaputt machen?Good point ! Maybe 'Suche Wanne kaputt'? BTW, I've mailed a friend who is a tanker in the Swiss army (yes, the Swiss army has tanks, German Leos actually) re hull down and I'll post his reply if and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Konkret! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I just spotted "Enttarnung" for exposure. This is of course bull****, too, the CM setting doesn't stand for "decamouflage" (literal translation), that means not for spotting probablity but for exposure, that means what portion of the unit can be shot at. And you guys support these bastards by giving them your money, making them even stronger for more future contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 @redwolf: 1. How else could I obtain a legal copy here in Vienna? Suggestions highly welcome since I'm gonna buy BB also and would prefer the US version. 2. How could strong sales of the CDV-version hurt Battlefront? My assumption is that it would strengthen their position along the line of "... look, you sould soandsomany copies of the first installment and now you want to pay us only ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Here's what Moon had to say in a similar thread some time ago: posted September 21, 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zarquon, the translations were managed by us (well, me) and done by fans, some of which you will see on these forums regularly. No, they're not perfect. Given enough time and a major recoding of how CM is handling text, it could have been done better, but unfortunately neither of the two were an option. When you have to squeeze german words into an interface made for english, you often run into compromises. Just to give you one example - some texts you see in CM are composed of various phrases which are re-used throughout the game. E.g. "machinegun" might be one string of text which appears in three or four instances. Now you know that in German, the proper translation occasionally would be "Maschinengewehr", but sometimes it could be "(des) Maschinengewehrs". Problems like these are difficult to work around to provide a 100% flawless German translation. As for "Kampfwille" and "Zug" - "Kampfmoral" and "Kampfwille" are interchangeable. We went with "Kampfwille" because it is distinct from "Moral" that is tracked for each unit on the map. "Runde" would be the proper translation of "turn", indeed, but it is one letter longer than "turn", and when you look at the interface you will realize that even that one letter more would have caused problems. "Zug" isn't wrong as is either, as the phrase "Ich bin am Zug" is used to indicate that one player's turn has begun. But yes, the translations do have some compromises like this, and you can see that it is a translation and not a game originally made in German. Given that there were about 120,000 words to translate for CMBB within a short timeframe, however, it's a great job of everyone involved. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 @ walker: Aye, I, for example, would do the translation for free or for little. Just a handful of hours or even less for the interface. English is one of the few things I'm da bomb at (playing CM not another )being at least a certified English<->German translator for the Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 That is 120,000 words also counting some of the manual, eh? Can the interface alone have 120,000 words that need expert translation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Folks, Moon comments quoted above are for CMBB, which apparently has a much better translation done by BFC themself (i.e. Moon). I don't know who did the CMBO translation, but he/she is more stupid than me and that is concerning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Hi Redwolf,that term tauchstellung is interesting. Now we use the Leo 2 in our army as the Germans,and they are equiped with special add on devices for the turrets to go under water. Could it be that that term is used for this device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightblade Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Just some little corrections: it´s not "Teilverdeckte Stellung" (though it´s not entirely wrong and most people should understand what it means and it´s definitely much better than "Wanne kaputt"), it´s "teilgedeckte Stellung". In addition to this there is a "versteckte Stellung" (hidden position), which means that the unit (tank) is hidden behind objects (brushes, fences, scattered trees, etc) but it´s not protected by them; it´s harder to spot, but when spotted as easy to hit as if it was placed in open ground. There is a combination of both called "teilgedeckte, versteckte Stellung" which is to be preferred to the two others I mentioned. "Tauchstellung" is something which has nothing to do with tanks at all; at least that term is found nowhere in German military language concering tanks. When a tank has to cross a body of water, it can "waten" (wade) - up to 1.20m for the Leo2 - , "tiefwaten" (deeply wade) - up to 2.25m for the Leo2 - or "unterwasserfahren" (drive under water) - up to 4.00m for the Leo2. [ December 12, 2002, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Brightblade ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: Folks, Moon comments quoted above are for CMBB, which apparently has a much better translation done by BFC themself (i.e. Moon). I don't know who did the CMBO translation, but he/she is more stupid than me and that is concerning Redwolf, I think we're talking about CM:BB only. Note the cdv logos on the screenshots above. AFAIK CM:BO was never localised, at least not officially. Could be wrong though . r@b, what would you suggest for 'hull down' and 'exposure' in the German version? I've been thinking hard about 'exposure' in the game context and it sure ain't easy to find a cool German expression that also remains within the restrictions outlined by Moon above. 'Enttarnung' means exactly what Redwolf said above, and is not at all right. The best I can come up with right now is 'Gefährdung' (risk of something unpleasant happening). It is longer than 'exposure' but then so is 'Enttarnung'. And just to illustrate: 120,000 words are approx. 400 nicely filled pages. I don't suppose someone could post a sampling of English terms used in the BB interface with their German equivalents? I'm afraid I only have the US version (thank goodness ). [ December 12, 2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Walker ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Originally posted by Walker: Redwolf, I think we're talking about CM:BB only. Note the cdv logos on the screenshots above. AFAIK CM:BO was never localised, at least not officially. Could be wrong though . Sorry you are wrong on both items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinald@berlin.com Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 Thx Brightblade, very informative post! Exposure IMHO cannot be translated directly. However "Gefährung" (danger) or "Gefährdungsanteil" (percentage of danger) or "Auslieferung/Ausgeliefertsein" (~exposure) would be better than "Enttarnung". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightblade Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Another option would be to switch the percentage (100%-exposure%). What sense is in telling the exposure of some infantry unit? Why not telling the percentage of cover it has? Then there wouldn´t be any translation problems - at least not in this case. I´m no programmer nor do I know how it´s implemented in CM, so I don´t know how difficult it would be, but I think it´s worth to think about it - if not for CMBO then for CMBB at least, or for the engine rewrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by redwolf: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walker: Redwolf, I think we're talking about CM:BB only. Note the cdv logos on the screenshots above. AFAIK CM:BO was never localised, at least not officially. Could be wrong though . Sorry you are wrong on both items.</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by Brightblade: Another option would be to switch the percentage (100%-exposure%). What sense is in telling the exposure of some infantry unit? Why not telling the percentage of cover it has? Then there wouldn´t be any translation problems - at least not in this case. I´m no programmer nor do I know how it´s implemented in CM, so I don´t know how difficult it would be, but I think it´s worth to think about it - if not for CMBO then for CMBB at least, or for the engine rewrite.That is a good idea, Brightblade. It would also solve the German translation problem, as you remark: 'Deckung' ('cover'). I can't see it happening for BB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Yeah, sometimes you have to change the concept to get to the right translation. Just so people don't think I'm stoned about "Tauchstellung," I include this composite image taken from The Military Eitzen 4. Auflage,copyright 1956, Verlag Weu/Offene Worte, Bonn By Studienrat Kurt Hilmar Eitzen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 Originally posted by RMC: The Military Eitzen 4. Auflage,copyright 1956, Verlag Weu/Offene Worte, Bonn By Studienrat Kurt Hilmar Eitzen. Studienrat = Old school teacher, like the guy in "All Quiet on the Western Front". [ December 12, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts