CDV kaputt Bug

[Walker]

Originally posted by redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RMC:

The Military Eitzen 4. Auflage,copyright 1956, Verlag Weu/Offene Worte, Bonn By Studienrat Kurt Hilmar Eitzen.

Studienrat = Old school teacher, like the guy in "All Quiet on the Western Front".</font>

[RMC]

I guess he's trying to say "old geezer who couldn't possibly have the foggiest notion about military stuff."

Anyway, I went searching for more info about this old geezer to see what I could find. The first edition of The Military Eitzen was published in 1928 and the second in 1936. I've got the 4th from 1956. Guessing the 3rd appeared in the 40's.

A Japanese site has this:

"2nd, expanded edition of the original 1928 edition. Good w/o dust jacket. Bookplate of former West Pointer on endpaper. Spine cloth, paper covered boards. Heavy wear to edges and corners of boards, with some scuffing to covers. Boards slightly bent. Some spotting to spine. Spine very flexible, but pages still well bound. Hinge starting to show at page 480 - 481. 485 p. w/abbreviations, monetary andrank, and measurement tables in back. Also includes a positive review of the 1928 edition from the British Army journal "Fighting Forces", stating taht the author was an Oxonian and, though wounded by British shellfire (in WWI, we presume) he seems "full of friendliness" for Great Britain. However, the preface by the author includes a perhaps obligatory "Heil Hitler" at the end. The review from 1928 is indeed on target : a very complete, well presented military dictionary, still very useful today especially for students of WWII"

[Walker]

Originally posted by RMC:

I guess he's trying to say "old geezer who couldn't possibly have the foggiest notion about military stuff."

Anyway, I went searching for more info about this old geezer to see what I could find. The first edition of The Military Eitzen was published in 1928 and the second in 1936. I've got the 4th from 1956. Guessing the 3rd appeared in the 40's.

A Japanese site has this:

"2nd, expanded edition of the original 1928 edition. Good w/o dust jacket. Bookplate of former West Pointer on endpaper. Spine cloth, paper covered boards. Heavy wear to edges and corners of boards, with some scuffing to covers. Boards slightly bent. Some spotting to spine. Spine very flexible, but pages still well bound. Hinge starting to show at page 480 - 481. 485 p. w/abbreviations, monetary andrank, and measurement tables in back. Also includes a positive review of the 1928 edition from the British Army journal "Fighting Forces", stating taht the author was an Oxonian and, though wounded by British shellfire (in WWI, we presume) he seems "full of friendliness" for Great Britain. However, the preface by the author includes a perhaps obligatory "Heil Hitler" at the end. The review from 1928 is indeed on target : a very complete, well presented military dictionary, still very useful today especially for students of WWII"

RMC, it's not worth the effort. We're just getting blown off course here.

Interesting info on the Eitzen though. Makes me even gladder I managed to buy one yesterday .

[RMC]

What was the course?

Oh, yeah. Well, even though Tauchstellung has a distinctly naval ring to it, I don't discount it for lack of definitive evidence to the contrary because of the history of naval terminology that surrounds tanks. Hull and bow for english, Wanne and Bug for german. Maybe Tauchstellung originated in the twenties when tanks may have still have been referred to as Landships now and again.

Still teilgedeckte Stellung seems more precise and maybe that is the preferred term.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com:

1. How else could I obtain a legal copy here in Vienna? Suggestions highly welcome since I'm gonna buy BB also and would prefer the US version.

"legal"?

You must be kidding, of course you don't break any law by getting a US copy over. It's crap between companies, that's all. You just need someone to receive and relay it for you in the US.

2. How could strong sales of the CDV-version hurt Battlefront? My assumption is that it would strengthen their position along the line of "... look, you sould soandsomany copies of the first installment and now you want to pay us only ..."

It strengthens battlefront, but I feel it didn't strengthen this community.

Look at that bull****: the term they used for exposure is exactly the opposite in their translation. Are serious wargamers likely to take this serious and join?

[reinald@berlin.com]

@redwolf:

I meant legal as opposed to pirated. Actually, I got noone in the US to relay the CD to me.

Any other ways to get my hands on a US-BB?

[Redwolf]

Mail me.

[RMC]

Ok. check this out.

from

Merkblatt 47a/29

Ausbildung und Einsatz der Schweren Panzerkompanie Tiger, vom 20.5.1943

"VII. Kampf Panzer gegen Panzer

34. Die wichtigste Aufgabe der s. Pzkp. ist die bekämpfung von Feindpanzern. Sie hat stets den Vorrang vor jedem anderen Auftrag.

35. Selbständiges rasches Handeln des Kp.-Führers und straffe Führung der Komp. durch kurze, klare Befehle sind die Grundlagen für den Erfolg. Sofortiger Angriff ist meist die beste Lösung.

36. Durch stets wechselnde Angriffsverfahren ist der Feind immer wieder zu täuschen und verwirren.

Hierzu gehören:

a) Überfallartige Feuereröffnungen aus günstiger Stellung (Hinterhang- oder Randstellung) auf wirkungsvolle Entfernung und aus unerwarteter Richtung."

Now I just happen to have another source in which this Merkblatt was first translated to English and then back to German. (jentz, Tiger I & II Kampf und Taktik)

"a) Eröffne das Feuer aus dem Hinterhalt oder aus günstigen Stellungen (teilgedeckte Stellungen oder Stellungen im Zuge von Wald- und

Ortsrändern. etc) aus wirkungsvolle Entfernung und aus unerwarteten Richtungen."

So should the actual mid-forties german term for Hull Down Position be Hinterhangstellung?

[reinald@berlin.com]

No, Hinterhang=back slope

telgedeckte Stellung = hull down

[RMC]

Right, but most hull down positions are achieved with a back slope of some kind. I find it interesting that hinterhang went nto english as Hull Down and came back teilgedeckt. Hull down is very specific. The hull is not in view. Teilgedeckt just says that the vehicle is partially covered. Anything less than full cover is teilgedeckt.

[Walker]

Originally posted by RMC:

Right, but most hull down positions are achieved with a back slope of some kind. I find it interesting that hinterhang went nto english as Hull Down and came back teilgedeckt. Hull down is very specific. The hull is not in view. Teilgedeckt just says that the vehicle is partially covered. Anything less than full cover is teilgedeckt.

If my memory serves me well, 'hinterhang' is reverse slope, and as RMC says hull down is more specific. I'm still working on hull down. If we had to choose now, it would be a toss-up between Tauchstellung and teilgedeckte Stellung, with RMC's extract from the Military Eitzen tipping the scales towards Tauchstellung. I now think there's a very big probability that both are applicable for hull down. FWIW.

[reinald@berlin.com]

And there's much more crap like this in the CDV-version.

'jam' is translated as "Klemme". But "Klemme" means 'clamp'. The correct German term would be "Hemmung" or "Ladehemmung".

[Walker]

Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com:

And there's much more crap like this in the CDV-version.

'jam' is translated as "Klemme". But "Klemme" means 'clamp'. The correct German term would be "Hemmung" or "Ladehemmung".

Could you perhaps post a list of the most obvious mistranslations?

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Walker:

The CDV version of CM:BB doesn't have a CDV logo on the map screen, at least not in the English version. CDV got the franchise to distribute CMBO in Western Europe just over a year ago and despite what the snobs say, introduced the game to people who hadn't heard of it before or were unwilling to order it from the States. I believe people who bought the CDV version of CMBO got an extra 'goody' disc with mods and extra scenarios that some of us had spent hours downloading on a 56k connection .

[RMC]

Chris,

the answer is "Wanne unten."

I downloaded the CMBB german demo.

Rotieren sounds silly to me.

I think "In Deckung gehen" is incorrectly used for Hide.

[Walker]

Originally posted by Firefly:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Walker:

The CDV version of CM:BB doesn't have a CDV logo on the map screen, at least not in the English version. CDV got the franchise to distribute CMBO in Western Europe just over a year ago and despite what the snobs say, introduced the game to people who hadn't heard of it before or were unwilling to order it from the States. I believe people who bought the CDV version of CMBO got an extra 'goody' disc with mods and extra scenarios that some of us had spent hours downloading on a 56k connection .</font>

Yes but was BO distributed by CDV in a German-language version?

Are the screenshots on page 1 from BO or BB then??

It's amazing how difficult it can be to get an unambiguous answer to a simple question sometimes...

[Redwolf]

As I wrote above, at least the icon which is an American placeholder slightly indicates this is CMBO, unless the OSS was active on the eastern front right there.

[Firefly]

Originally posted by Walker:

Yes but was BO distributed by CDV in a German-language version?

Are the screenshots on page 1 from BO or BB then??

It's amazing how difficult it can be to get an unambiguous answer to a simple question sometimes...

Yes CDV released a German language version and an English language version (there may have been others) of CMBO. The screenshots are from the German language version of CMBO, judging by the interface and light coloured grass.

[reinald@berlin.com]

@RMC: "Rotieren" is perfectly ok for 'rotate'.

"In Deckung gehen" means 'taking cover'. 'Hide' should have been translated with "Verstecken".

[RMC]

I was thinking that rotate would have been better represented by "wenden." I have seen that term used in the Tigerfibel.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com:

@RMC: "Rotieren" is perfectly ok for 'rotate'.

"Drehen" maybe? "Rotieren" usually means more than one full turn, i.e. constantly. "Wenden" means 180 degrees turn.

"In Deckung gehen" means 'taking cover'. 'Hide' should have been translated with "Verstecken".

"Schnautze halten, Birne runter!" sounds most realistic actually, at least for conscripts

[Walker]

If I may split some hairs here, it would depend on what the unit actually does. Turning on the spot is 'rotieren', whereas 'wenden' is more a 3/4/x-point turn.

[RMC]

hmm. I came across wenden in the old discussion after the release of the CMBO demo when it was noted that all tanks in the game can sit and spin when not all really could. The Tigerfibel talks about "Wenden auf der Stelle."

[Walker]

Exactly. You'd have to qualify 'wenden' with 'auf der Stelle' = in place, on the spot. BTW, I don't especially like 'rotieren' either. The only other option that comes to mind is 'drehen' though.

[RMC]

How about we use pivot or traverse instead of rotate? That opens up more options like schwenken.

BTW third edition of the Eitzen was published in 1943. I actually noticed the Vorwort today.