scorpius1001 Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 According to the "accounts" given in the book 'Panzer Aces'. Alot of these fellows seem to be quite good (or lucky) at hitting Soviet tanks (t-28..34 so on)..to where the turrets are completely blown off the main body of the tank itself. L/75-L/88's are the main weapons in usage, regaurding the previous statement. So..will this effect be modeled in CMBB..or are these guys just blowing hot air after too many lagers at Octoberfest...!! Grodnards to the rescue!! Please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 It won't be simulated in the current engine - though there were hints about extensive damage modelling being done in the rewrite (ie visibly smashed running gear, etc.) It did happen - the sympathetic detonation of a store of HE shells would provide a fair bit of lift to a turret that is essentially (correct me if I'm wrong) simply set on a ring of roller bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpius1001 Posted September 19, 2002 Author Share Posted September 19, 2002 thanks for the reply...but the accounts also include damage due to the initial kinetic energy of the shot to turret/mantle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARRPEEGEE Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 If you look at the knock-out model, you'll see that the turret is off-set from the hull-which would be more normal to happen with WWII munitions..Now, if you've seen that javelin vs. T-72 video, you've seen a turret pop! damn thing goes at least 20ft up..Ok, back on track now..AFAIK, there's no turret pops in CMBB, that I've seen yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 I believe Tiger crewmen had a witty little saying: "The T34 always tips his hat to the Tiger". I think you already know what they were refering to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittmann Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 The Physics majors can help out here, but momentum before and after collision are the same. Assuming all energy is converted in the impact, it seems unlikley that a 30 pound shell at 2000 feet per second could bodily move a 15 to 20 ton turret. The explosive effect of a brew up seems much more likely. I'm not sure of the firewall layout of a T34 but I suspect it would be similar to a sherman, and we all know what fun Jerry had with those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 From a physics standpoint, the impact of an AT shot is less likely to move the turret if the shot penetrates, because less of the shot's energy is transferred into the mass of the turret. However, I believe that any movement of a turret is due more to the energy generated by the explosion of on-board flammables, rather than the energy that is absorbed from an incoming shot. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgars Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Originally posted by mch: Now, if you've seen that javelin vs. T-72 video, you've seen a turret pop! damn thing goes at least 20ft up..Where can one see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 The impact of a 150mm class shell is reportedly capable of shearing off any turret. 100 pds moving at 700 m/s from a howitzer is a pretty significant amount of KE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARRPEEGEE Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by mch: Now, if you've seen that javelin vs. T-72 video, you've seen a turret pop! damn thing goes at least 20ft up.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Where can one see it?Right here:(the .mpeg link is in the text) http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=jx1.htm They probably loaded that T-72 with C4, but..An amazing KO from an amazing weapon system..look for the turret on top of the explosion, you'll see it [ September 19, 2002, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: mch ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Originally posted by panzerwerfer42: The impact of a 150mm class shell is reportedly capable of shearing off any turret. 100 pds moving at 700 m/s from a howitzer is a pretty significant amount of KE.I beleive there were Cases of PZ-IVs at Tobruk having their turrets blown clean off by Brit 25 Pound Arty peices using HE ammo. Speaking of Flying turrets, anyone ever play Steel Beasts. I swear when turrets fly off they go high enough to give God a hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 mch - great sig Nippy - sure that was not AT ammo for the 25-pdr or whatever they handed out for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 The T-72 in the Javelin test was reportedly combat loaded with full ammo and fuel, left running. That's what I heard, at least. Heckuva way to go to your maker... :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpius1001 Posted September 20, 2002 Author Share Posted September 20, 2002 Thanks for that link....Goddamn there is NOTHING left of that t-72.....! :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARRPEEGEE Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Yep! which makes you wonder a bit about it..My guess is an older, underarmored '72 (heh..not to say the '72 isn't old in the first place)Definately not a newer, Kt5 varitey..Not that it'd matter too much as the javelin's a top-attacker..Our dragon ATGM's sucked so bad it's fitting our infantry gets an uber-weapon now The really, really amazing thing is that, not only is it fire and forget, but..notice how little backblast it gave off..And, being a top-attacker..You won't be able to tell where the shot came from..protects the firer extremely well. [ September 20, 2002, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: mch ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shosties Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Regarding the "hat tipping" tendancies of the T-34 this might be relevant. (Yup, quoting Loza again, I should find another interview shouldn't I? For a long time after the war I sought an answer to one question. If a T-34 started burning, we tried to get as far away from it as possible, even though this was forbidden. The on-board ammunition exploded. For a brief period of time, perhaps six weeks, I fought on a T-34 around Smolensk. The commander of one of our companies was hit in his tank. The crew jumped out of the tank but were unable to run away from it because the Germans were pinning them down with machine gun fire. They lay there in the wheat field as the tank burned and blew up. By evening, when the battle had waned, we went to them. I found the company commander lying on the ground with a large piece of armor sticking out of his head. When a Sherman burned, the main gun ammunition did not explode. Why was this? Such a case occurred once in Ukraine. Our tank was hit. We jumped out of it but the Germans were dropping mortar rounds around us. We lay under the tank as it burned. We laid there a long time with nowhere to go. The Germans were covering the empty field around the tank with machine gun and mortar fires. We lay there. The uniform on my back was beginning heating up from the burning tank. We thought we were finished! We would hear a big bang and it would all be over! A brother's grave! We heard many loud thumps coming from the turret. This was the armor-piercing rounds being blown out of their cases. Next the fire would reach the high explosive rounds and all hell would break loose! But nothing happened. Why not? Because our high explosive rounds detonated and the American rounds did not? In the end it was because the American ammunition had more refined explosives. Ours was some kind of component that increased the force of the explosion one and one-half times, at the same time increasing the risk of detonation of the ammunition. Was Loza commanding a W Sherman at the time? He got the impression the AP rounds were cooking off, could that have been something else? Did the HE rounds cook off too, but just the propellent and not the HE? :confused: Is "hat tipping" the result of an immediate, big secondary explosion of the HE ready ammo in the T-34? Kinda reminds me of the British battlecrusiers at Jutland... and the Hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted September 20, 2002 Share Posted September 20, 2002 Isnt it difficult to model a popping turret using CMBB's current software? I thought that was one of the reason's for not doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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