Kingfish Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Question: Since Sharpshooters in CM represent the best shot of a unit, wouldn't it make sense to always have the Sharpshooter equal or higher in experience to the other line infantry of his unit? It seems to me that if a defending commander has enough time to lay mines, scout terrain, deploy field pieces, plot TRPs and call in reinforcements, then he surely has enough time to pick the most experienced guy under his command, hand him the scoped rifle and tell him where to hide. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 My thoughts are : Combat experience does not necessarily mean I am a great shot, or even the best shot in my squad, platoon, or company. I can be cool under pressure, a good leader, and great at laying down suppressing fire on the enemy with a submahinegun, but this certainly does not make me the best shot, so I'd have to say your logic is not the best. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 My understanding is that sharpshooter are as you said the best shooters in a unit, but they are not sniper, they just have a regular rifle, if I understand what BTS has said about them. So yes it is a good idea to make them better then most units. Here is my little point. You don't have to be a battle hardened soldier to have a good shot. Say 68 year old Rubean was a hunter and he was a good shot. A few week later he was conscripted into the Volkssturm. Does this change how good a shooter he is? [ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: Panzerman ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kingfish: Question: Since Sharpshooters in CM represent the best shot of a unit, wouldn't it make sense to always have the Sharpshooter equal or higher in experience to the other line infantry of his unit? It seems to me that if a defending commander has enough time to lay mines, scout terrain, deploy field pieces, plot TRPs and call in reinforcements, then he surely has enough time to pick the most experienced guy under his command, hand him the scoped rifle and tell him where to hide. Your thoughts?<hr></blockquote> The sharpshooter could be of the same experience level as another squad, but the sharp shooter would still have a better shot. Even if a sharp shooter is of less experience then another squad, chances are, he'll be more accurate, it's just that he may have the jitters causing him to reload at a slower rate, and have a tendency to seek saftey much sooner. THe in experience may also lead to not being very proficient at hiding, and things of that nature. But never the less, he will still be more accurate then the average rifleman when he finaly takes aim and fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 14, 2002 Author Share Posted January 14, 2002 Pg. 78 of the manual: Lastly, the experience rating of a unit also has an impact on its offensive capabilities, i.e. firepower. This reflects, among other factors, better marksmanship... So, to use Panzerman's example, if old Rueban was an excellent shot in civilian life, but then given conscript status when drafted, his marksmanship will be no better than some other Joe-blow that they grabbed off the street. Keep in mind that I'm talking specifically about CM, not real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 You asked for my thoughts, I gave them. If you want an argument, I'll give you one of those as well. A "Veteran" infantry squad will have better markmanship that a "Regular" squad, that's all that pg. 78 of the vaunted manual means, right? Is there not more to being a soldier than being a great shot... like say, being a great shot under pressure, combat awareness, many many factors. I know you are talking about CM and not real life. My point is just b/c he is the best shot does that make him (the sharpshooter supposedly selected from whichever squad) the absolute best soldier in his squad? I say it definitely does not. I think all CM simulates is that in a "Veteran" squad all of the soldiers are "Veteran" ones, right? So that if you take out the best shot he should not necessarily be "Crack" or "Elite" and then when you mix him into a squad with maybe some "Regulars" the whole unit becomes a "Veteran" one. That is not how CM works, correct? Also, consider maybe he just became a sharpshooter... maybe he should suffer a penalty because he no longer has comrades around him in a cohesive unit?? Maybe all sharpshooters should be downgraded a step... Just some counter-points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 I have a couple of thoughts on this issue. The first is that the experience level of a sharpshooter is only really meaningful when you compare him to other sharpshooters. So a regular SS is regular compared to other sharpshooters, not compared to regular infantry squads. What would an elite SS become? WRT the other point, if I were a platoon leader, I would want my most experienced men in my platoon so that he can be relied upon when things get hairy. I don't want him 300 meters away, drawing a bead on some unimportant unit halfway across the board when my unit gets swarmed by gamey smg squads embarked on pumas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 14, 2002 Author Share Posted January 14, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>You asked for my thoughts, I gave them. If you want an argument, I'll give you one of those as well.<hr></blockquote> I don't think an argument is needed for you to get your point across. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>My point is just b/c he is the best shot does that make him (the sharpshooter supposedly selected from whichever squad) the absolute best soldier in his squad?<hr></blockquote> But in CM if he's not at least equal or better than the rest of his comrades then his marksmanship is not as good, so therefore he cannot be the chosen sharpshooter of the unit, because only the better shots are issued the scoped rifle, correct? <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>So that if you take out the best shot he should not necessarily be "Crack" or "Elite" and then when you mix him into a squad with maybe some "Regulars" the whole unit becomes a "Veteran" one. That is not how CM works, correct?<hr></blockquote> No, but flip it around. Would it make sense for the commander of a Veteran rifle platoon to assign the sharpshooter's duties to a guy fresh out of cadet school? Perhaps in real life, because Joe cadet might be a good shot, but in CM his accuracy is worse than his comrades, because in CM better experience equals better accuracy. Why is that so hard to understand? <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Also, consider maybe he just became a sharpshooter... maybe he should suffer a penalty because he no longer has comrades around him in a cohesive unit?? Maybe all sharpshooters should be downgraded a step...<hr></blockquote> I agree, but there is just one problem with that. CM doesn't assign different levels of 'values' (for lack of a better word) to a unit. IOW, you can't have a unit that has Elite marksmanship, regular morale and green response. So if you are to give him a penalty for being out all alone his accuracy will drop, so there's no point in handing him the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patgod Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 i look at it like this. CM abstracts the "rank" of a unit. a "Vet" squad of 10 men may have 8 "vets" 1 "crack" and 1 "green" replacemnt. but who is he replacing? well the second "crack" who was issued a scoped weapon. doesnt mean i like it(like most things wiht the sharps) but thats how i see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 This will probably be my final post on this subject... ALL other arguments aside, your initial position is flawed, Kingfish, logically. In CM yes better experience equals, among other things, better markmanship however the reverse does not hold true, as a logic problem. Ie. "If A then B" but not "If B then A." Basically, I don't buy your logic (on this topic) and never will. We can easily argue back and forth about all the other factors, rationalizing the possibilties to fit our position, but my main point is that : being the best shot does not make a soldier the best soldier in his squad/platoon/company (necessarily) and should not warrant a higher experience level than the other units present, assuming he came from one of those units in the first place. Edit : Anyway for QBs, you can make your sharpshooters better or at least equal anyway. [ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: Herr Kruger ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Read the passage in 'Quartered safe out here' where MacDonald Fraser relates how he became the section's 'sniper-scout'. If you can get past the Sergeant's Cumbrian accent, it is a hilarious read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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