The 3 inch mortar - an underrated battlewinner?

[Walker]

In recent PBEM games I had some staggeringly good results with British 3” on-board mortars, and decided to run some tests with them as some aspects of how best to use them / how the AI works with them were, for me at least, shrouded in mystery.

This is a capsule summary of my experience to date. I’m eager to hear whether any of you fine fellow CM enthusiasts can supplement/correct my findings. The test was conducted with 9 3” Brit on-board mortars commanded by a double combat bonus platoon leader and a gaggle of German AFVs.

1. There seems to be only a very minor difference between Elite/Crack/Veteran 3” on-board mortar units. Under the same conditions all teams had similar time-to-fire delays (from ‘Rested’; best Elite 3 secs, best Veteran 5 secs), the same accuracy (crater spread) and the same rates of fire (10-13 rounds per minute; in this test). After moving, Elite teams went from ‘Reloading’ (i.e. setting the mortar up again) to ‘Rested’ (i.e. ready to fire) a few seconds faster than the Veteran units (after a 40-50 sec. wait) and got off more rounds by the end of the minute (Elite 2-3 rounds, Veteran 1-2 rounds).

If you order a mortar to ‘Move & Hide’ it will NOT go from ‘Reloading’ to ‘Rested’ while hiding. Ever. IOW, it will not set up its weapon while hiding. Once you target something it will start its setup procedure (time to first round fired = approx. 45 secs setup time + 5-10 secs load&fire). However, if you ‘Hide’ a ‘Rested’ mortar it will be ready to fire without having to go through the setup procedure first.

The more times you run the test, which incidentally bloomed into an evening-filling and astonishingly complex project, the more blurred the differences between high and medium quality units become. Bottom line for me: if I can afford 6 on-board mortars I’ll get 4 Vets and 2 Elite (the latter for superswift response times).

2. No matter what you target with a mortar without direct LOS (a clump of bushes or an AFV), you always get the ‘Area Target’ flag.

3. A mortar with no direct LOS to target (‘concealed mortar’ will not track a moving AFV (yellow line from mortar to AFV). It will not adjust its fire to the vehicle’s movement. In other words, it will continue to drop its rounds on the initially targeted spot (‘Area Fire’ . Concealed mortars will do exactly what you tell them to do, i.e. they will not target of their own accord and will not fire smoke missions unless ordered to do so, and will not switch targets either. They will continue to fire on an AFV even after the target has been abandoned or destroyed.

4. A mortar with direct LOS to target will track a moving AFV (red line from mortar to AFV). Not one single hit on a moving AFV was recorded during the test, though. On-board mortars seem to be brilliant against stationary vehicles but hopeless against moving ones.

5. Mortars that can ‘see’ parts of the battlefield will choose their own targets and switch targets like any other direct-fire weapon. This can be good or bad. They may also decide to fire smoke, which can get you cheering or cursing, too, depending on the situation.

6. German AFVs destroyed by 3” mortar fire included all types of open-topped vehicles, Pumas, Hetzers and PanzerIVs. Wheeled AFVs were often immobilised and thus became sitting ducks. Tanks also suffered immobilisation and, quite frequently, gun damage.

7. You won’t get anywhere with a Brit 3” mortar without the right transport. Strangely, a 3” mortar cannot be transported in an M20 Utility Car or a Stuart Kangaroo. It will however happily embark in a Jeep, a Truck, a HT, a Ram Kangaroo or a Universal Carrier. The HT, Truck and Ram all have space for an additional team (not another 3” mortar; however an 81mm US on-board mortar or a Vickers, .50 HMG, Piat, FT, 60mm or 2” mortar will fit).

IMHO, the 3” on-board mortar is a massively underrated battle-winner. Two x 2 concealed 3” teams commanded by double-attack-bonus HQ units in an overwatch position will drive the German commander to desperation.

This is a nice and flexible combo too:

4 x 3” mortars

2 x 2” mortars*

2 x HQ

all loaded on 4 x HT. Or you can get the HQs to yomp it and load up 2 more 2” mortars or 2 Vickers MGs (or 2 US 60mm or 81mm mortars or HMGs if you’re not restricting yourself to one nationality). The 60mm mortar has a much better range than the 2” one, and the 81mm mortar has less than half the ammo of the 3” mortar and is slightly less destructive too.

*Contrary to popular opinion, the humble 2” mortar can destroy any open-top vehicle.

A final question: has anyone been able to determine the direction from which a concealed mortar is firing by watching the fall of its shot?

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>A final question: has anyone been able to determine the direction from which a concealed mortar is firing by watching the fall of its shot?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure have. The pattern will be a straight line pointings towards the mortar.

I once had a platoon pinned down from an unseen mortar, but by following the pattern back I found the patch of woods they were hiding in. Two DF 105mm rounds later and the barrage stopped, followed by two stun crews staggering towards the rear. My opponent was not amused.

[tenfive2]

Hey Walker, thanks for the info on the 3-inch mortar!

Kingfish. Can you clarify what you said about the pattern? Straight line from what point?

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tenfive2:

Hey Walker, thanks for the info on the 3-inch mortar!

Kingfish. Can you clarify what you said about the pattern? Straight line from what point?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When on-board mortars fire their shells land either long or short, progressively working their way to the target. Few shells will miss right or left. As a result you will see a pattern of craters in a straight line. You can follow that pattern back toward enemy lines and most often determine where the mortars are.

[Gyrene]

The trace pattern is why you should group mortars, a widely spaced group is very hard to back-track, a large section of green mortars is virtually undistinguishable from a spotter.

Gyrene

[Walker]

Kingfish, thanks for the pointer. In my complicated way I was thinking more of observing the shells in flight to determine their origin...your method is glaringly logical and makes me feel slightly humbled.

Gyrene - A valid point. I suppose you have to decide whether to have 1 big mortar park (with the risk of losing them all at once to an artillery strike)or 2 or 3 smaller nests (which would require more 'spare' HQ units and force the German commander to call in more strikes to silence the mortars. Come to think of it, 3 widely spaced mortar nests firing at the same target would also create a confusing trace pattern. Maybe that's the way to go).

[Sergeant Saunders]

Walker: "spare HQs" Is there a way to buy/get spare HQ units? Was attempting to create a scenario with just a few FO's, but would like to have them in C&C.

[Walker]

Sorry Sergeant Saunders I don't think you can. With 'spare' I mean HQs 'borrowed' from the ranks of a batallion for example. A 2-star company commander standing in for two attack bonus platoon HQs that are then given command of, say, two heavy weapons combos. That kind of stuff.

What exactly are you working on? A scenario with only a few FOs? No other units at all? Please elaborate.

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sergeant Saunders:

Walker: "spare HQs" Is there a way to buy/get spare HQ units? Was attempting to create a scenario with just a few FO's, but would like to have them in C&C.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you can, but I haven't tested it fully. You can purchase any infantry formation and delete the combat elements, leaving just the HQs. Would that work for you?

[acrashb]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

You can purchase any infantry formation and delete the combat elements, leaving just the HQs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it worked, it would be brilliant, but my test just now says 'nope'.

So you have to get a company or above, then scoop the company HQ's. Or leave a platoon leaderless - not a good idea.

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aaronb:

If it worked, it would be brilliant, but my test just now says 'nope'.

So you have to get a company or above, then scoop the company HQ's. Or leave a platoon leaderless - not a good idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What part of your test didn't work? I just created a scenario which featured one company HQ, 4 platoon HQs and 4 arty FOs from both sides.

[Sergeant Saunders]

Walker -

I am considering a rear-guard/delay action. I read about this some time ago, can't remember all the details. There was a german armored advance. There was a small recon/headquarters unit made up of a couple of battalion arty officers and a naval observer& the drivers/aides. This was shortly after D-Day or in Med/Italy (one of those Amphibian landings. The recon group had been mapping a ford in a river. They chose to attempt to disrupt the German advance by calling on their units, to bombard the ford. I am thinking of recreating something like this. I will have to research it for more, historicall details.

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Sergeant Saunders ]

[Andreas]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aaronb:

If it worked, it would be brilliant, but my test just now says 'nope'.

So you have to get a company or above, then scoop the company HQ's. Or leave a platoon leaderless - not a good idea.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aaron, still the old signline, eh? Those were the days...

I think there is a misunderstanding here. When designing a scenario you can delete single squads, but keep the HQ. When buying in a QB, you can not do that, you have to buy the unit as a whole.

And yes, the 3" mortar is shaggadelic. It was one of the few pieces of kit that the Germans envied the Commonwealth for, since it is far superior to the 81mm mortar they had. The other being the 'automatic' field guns, the 25pdrs with their high ROF.

[acrashb]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish:

What part of your test didn't work? I just created a scenario [...]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The part where you're building a scenario from scratch, and I'm building a QB - so we were just talking past each other.

Not even a smiley would have helped that one!

[acrashb]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Aaron, still the old signline, eh? Those were the days... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed - we're evenly matched, so each battle was a ... bloodbath. I still have the screenshots of that 'house of death'.

I'm open right now - pull a scenario off the web and send it over. You pick.

As for using the same sig - it's a little stale, but no-one has yet matched your flair for a dramatic phrase!

[Charlie Rock]

Just a thought.

I agree with the point made above, hidden mortars generally walk their rounds up and down in a pattern that leads back to the source.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in reality mortars don't work that way. Light 60's--81's at CM type ranges have a de facto range error of 15-20 feet, or less. This is because since the rounds are coming straight down, a degree or two of inaccuracy doesen't translate into much. Most crews at veteran level or above would walk the rounds laterally, anyway, so you couldn't ID their position. The traversing screw on a 60mm is just a little handle-it's like rolling down the car window.

On the other hand, during the initial spot of the round and start of a fire mission, the rounds should create a line straight back to the observer, because most FO's make the left / right shift on the first round and then take some time to adjust for range, either bracketing or ladder methods.

Food for thought: direct fire automatic weapons, because they are parallel to the ground, also trace a line leading back to them---a 20mm flak gun firing at a point target is an example. The beaten zone for a 7.62 MG at 500m is approx 1 meter wide, and 100 m long, so in reality the mortar beaten zones should be tighter and auto cannons longer and more narrow.

Shot out,

Charlie Rock

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sergeant Saunders:

Is there a way to buy/get spare HQ units?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you buy infantry by the battalion you will have HQs pouring out the wazoo.

Michael

[Chad Harrison]

along the 3" mortar lines, id take one over the US or ger 81mm any day. the most frustrating thing about the us 81mm is that you run out of ammo WAY to fast! does anyone really know if thats how much ammo they have? seems like such a little amount! the 3" is the only mortar that i will ever buy, if im not brits, i wont buy a mortar, theres better things to buy with those points (75mm inf gun namely!).

[Walker]

At least you get to use all your 3" ammo most of the time if the mortar is well placed. A 75 mm infantry gun never seems to last that long with me. And the German & US mortars aren't completely hopeless either.

[Chad Harrison]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Walker:

At least you get to use all your 3" ammo most of the time if the mortar is well placed. A 75 mm infantry gun never seems to last that long with me. And the German & US mortars aren't completely hopeless either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

very true. for weapons that shoots something in this game, it is all about positioning. if you place it bad, maybe no shots, place it good, i have seen many a 75mm inf. gun run dry. not as often as i have seen them disapear under a tree burst! :eek: