Panzer Leader Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 I know it's probably too late, but this occured to me last night and I thought it would be cool. How about a "Point Addition" for specific units in the scenario editor? With it, you could select certain units to have higher "point values" than they normally have. What it could be used for would be to single out certain units that are integral to victory in specifically designed scenarios. Here are a few examples to clarify the idea: Mission: destroy a supply dump. Have a few half-tracks or what not to symbolize a HQ area or supply dump. The units will have double or triple the amount of "victory points" so that the battle, regardless of losses or victory location, will hinge on the destruction of those units. Mission: Protect whatever. Make a certain unit a higher point total, and the victory will help be determined by whether or not that unit survives. Maybe the unit could be an entire company of infantry, with the mission something like "Rescue the encircled 1st company" or it could be a single vehicle, with the mission "Get General So-and-so back to the headquarters. It seems like a quick and easy way to add more varied and MISSION SPECIFIC scenarios to the CM game without major changes to the game engine. I am sure there are other ways this feature could be used, but this is just the first couple of examples I could think of... Whadd'ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 I like the idea, especially if it wouldn't delay the release of CMBB. To add to your list of scenario ideas, destroying a gun battery, such as the Rangers did at Pointe du Hoc on D-Day. Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Why not simply create a map and put a big VL somewhere and label it "supply depot?" Missions like "breakthrough and relieve encircled forces" are not modeled by the CM engine, but a player can easily create a scenario and append "manually-calculated" victory conditions such as "Captain Schmo ends the battle more than 250m from closest enemy: 50 points" or "Captain Schmo is captured: -400 points." Tedious, but effective. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Pilot Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Originally posted by Doug Beman: Why not simply create a map and put a big VL somewhere and label it "supply depot?" DjBBecause the mission is the destruction of the supply depot, not the taking and holding of the supply depot. A properly designed scenario would entail giving the attacking side sufficient forces to get in, destroy the depot and get out before the other side receives reinforcements that are more than adequate to defend and protect the depot - if it is still in one piece. Ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Well, the scenario builder can put in manual victory parameters for destroying certain buildings. How often did such an engagement take place (ie "you have 40 minutes to get to the supply depot, destroy it, and get back out.") Sounds more like C&C to me. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egan Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 How does the editor do that with the buildings? i haven't seen that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Originally posted by Doug Beman: Well, the scenario builder can put in manual victory parameters for destroying certain buildings. How often did such an engagement take place (ie "you have 40 minutes to get to the supply depot, destroy it, and get back out.") Sounds more like C&C to me. DjBHow about a situation where your victory objective is to escort a column of supply trucks for the relief of the Cherkassy Pocket or somefink. You could make it into an exit scenario and make the trucks worth 1000 points each (and set the other forces on your side as not eligible for exit) - that would pretty much ensure that the exiting of the column of trucks would make or break victory in that scenario. Anyway, this has already been brought up earlier (by Michael Dorosh - and myself too for that matter) and BTS planned on including this feature when they do the engine rewrite. That's a little ways down the road though so a lot could happen between now and then I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted April 25, 2002 Author Share Posted April 25, 2002 Oh well, wow ASL, I hadn't noticed that before, and I thought I'd seen ALL the great "CMBB ideas." Oh, well, can't wait for the rewrite I guess... Surely, Doug, if you think about it, I am sure you can see how this little addition can add variety to the scenario design process. Sure you're hokey plan might work, but what about when the victory is not so black&white, such as (in my second example) you manage to extricate the CC and one platoon from der kessel, but at a steep cost in casualties, the NUMBERS would tell you if the victory was worth the cost, the points would still be categorized according to CM standards, just with some units able to SKEW the results. Also, as for VLs doing the trick with a supply dump, that giant FLAG pinpointing the supply dump is a real focal point, when the mission objective is "You're recon troop has penetrated the forward lines and must atempt to cut off supplies to the enemy line before they are able to relocate" or something like that. For one, in my example, you wouldn't know the precise location of the dump, only that it is within your 2km (or whatever) area of operations, and for two, they might have a chance to evacuate (or not). It adds to the variety and to the MYSTERY of the scenario. And as for realism, I can name a few cases (ok many cases) where literally minutes separate victory from defeat in this type of situation. A certain fuel dump in the Huertgen springs to mind... Ah well, it was a good idea, I'm glad BTS has considered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Stuff like this can be done already to some extent, with the current tools avaliable. For example, the trucks and exiting scenario: Use an exit zone with no flags, and use elite trucks with elite 88mm PAK or FLAK attached, upping the point values to something like 250 points apiece. Set those units to exit and you will create a battle where getting the trucks off the board determines victory in general. Destroying some sort of target can also be done. Depending on the point values you need, just use the variety of bunkers avaliable. If you want them to be a command bunker of some sort, just take away their ammo. Note this will only work with an allied attacker. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 PL, the ability of a CM battle to model things like varying VPs for different vehicles that do different things is limited only by the scenario designer's imagination, and the willingness of players to keep track of all their units and determine victory conditions themselves. Heck, I could never make heads or tails of ASL or Harpoon rules, but I think I could know which of my units in CM had done what, and arrive at a ruling of "did I salvage enough units from the pocket?" IIf you need the game to do that for you, you'll have to await the rewrite. Hadn't even considered what wwb suggests (use ammo-less guns attached to prime movers, and set them to exit the map). DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted April 25, 2002 Share Posted April 25, 2002 Another trick that just hit me, on how to make a 'High value' flag: Use the dynamic flag setting, where you can define the point values of flags. Then put the 2 dynamic flags next to each other, or even on top of each other, effectively making it one flag. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts