Thin Red Line Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I'm playing a 1942 scenario where 2 regular soviets light tanks (45mm guns) engage an axis armored car (BA10 ?) at 1900 m and after a couple of shots, both AFVs hit the target and score a kill. The car was shooting back before being hit. In the beginning of the engagement i thought that this was a waste of ammo, but seing the good result i wonder how likely it is to hit such a small target with a small/medium caliber gun at such a long range. Was the 45mm gun very accurate ? Were the optics good enough for that kind of combat ? Was it even possible ? I'm asking especially when in another scenario i observed Tigers missing massive T34s 3 times in a row at 250m (but there was a snow storm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I've done something similar at 1,500m with light guns. What do you mean by 'a couple shots'? Two? Five? Seven? Usually the gun brackets the target - one short shot, one long shot, then he starts to refine his aim. It seems after the third shot the likelyhood of getting a hit goes up markedly (as long as it's not the T34's crappy 76.2mm gun). Still, 1,900m kill for a 45mm gun seems pretty extraordinary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 I have to check that again, but AFAIR it was the third shot that was on target for both BT7s. At such distance, do the crew have a clear vision where the shells land ? Is the impact visible ? For those reasons i found the kills extraordinary too. And the target was small, only a armored car ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Is the impact visible ? For those reasons i found the kills extraordinary too. And the target was small, only a armored car !I can't speak on the historical reality of what you saw, which sounds like what you're really wondering about (though I do wonder if all AFVs don't at least have the equivlent of moderate-quality binocs.). However, the 1st shot hit chance (clear day, flat suface, everything motionless) is probably around 5%. Which isn't very high, but more than high enough to make a couple of 3rd shot hits a not terribly remarkable occurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I've got a distinct feeling that such shells incorporate a tracer element in the back, so the gunner can see the fall of shot and adjust accordingly. I recall seeing some WWII footage of a small (37mm?) AT gun engaging a russian tank of some description - probably a T34 - and the tracer is clearly visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Usually the gun brackets the target - one short shot, one long shot, then he starts to refine his aim. Speaking of bracketing what is the deal with that? I would have thought that you aim to hit with the very first shot, then refine your aim accordingly if you miss; but I keep hearing about bracketing being a deliberate policy of using your first two shots as rangefinders. I would have thought that this was extremely wasteful of ammo, not to mention downright hazardous to ones lifespan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin Red Line Posted December 10, 2002 Author Share Posted December 10, 2002 Actually it was the fourth shot, exact range 1954m. [ December 10, 2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Speaking of bracketing what is the deal with that? If you shoot long and then short, you know that the correct ranging is between the two points. If you shoot and it goes long, you only know that your shot needs to be shorter and don't know by how much. Just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Thin Red Line: Was the 45mm gun very accurate ? Were the optics good enough for that kind of combat ? Was it even possible ?It was certainly possible. Tanks were destroyed at ranges greater than that. [ December 10, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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