Efficiency in flamethrowing

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Problem: On those rare occasions when I get to use my flamethrower guys, I find that they are usually only good for one torching because they waste their ammo. Here's what I'm doing:

Bad guys are in a light building. Mirculously, I have a (live) flamethrower within 32m. I "area target" the building, knowing that flames will drive the enemy into my surrounding MG nest/canister-laden tank ambush. On the next turn, the flamethrower torches the place repeatedly, the building catches fire after 2-3 bursts, the bad guy runs out and gets dead in a very dramatic and visually exciting manner. So why does the flamethrower expend the rest of his ammo torching an already flaming building with no enemy in it? I know that he's taking his "area fire" command literally, but I recall that in CMBO, the tanks and flamers would stop area firing a building if the building was blown up/aflame, respectively. This seems like more appropriate behavior for a unit with very limited ammo.

Any suggestions on how to avoid this? Can I introduce a delay in the Area Fire command so that he doesn't start roasting until the last 20 sec of a turn? I would target the unit directly instead of using "Area Fire" but the unit invariably becomes less visible once he starts to crawl away or panic.

This same problem exists for flamethrower tanks, although A) they have more ammo, and they move more quickly and can be moved into/out of range more adeptly.

Please help!

Dr. Rosenrosen

[Col Deadmarsh]

This is why we need to have more control over area fire. We should be able to shoot only 1 or 2 times per turn and then stop.

[Silvio Manuel]

Maybe use Pause and a sneak order to let your FT fire away for say or 30 sec, then sneak the opposite direction for 1 meter and then hide? Just a random brainstorm for ya. I think you might also want to give him a cover arc that includes the area-target, so that when he's hiding and facing the other way, if an opportunity target appears, he can engage it? That's kind of unrealistic for the German 32m range FT's, but maybe not so bad for the Soviets' 45m range.

[ December 03, 2002, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[TSword]

A little trick to area fire commands:

Give the unit a "on the spot" moving command (-> one where the unit actually does only cover a very small distance) the dreaded sneak works fine for that. You have to experiment a bit, but for mortars a move order (covering no distance at all) already is sufficient to induce the setup delay, usually they then start to fire the second half of turn. I use this scheme alot for HMGs and mortars.

Greets

Daniel

[Tigrii]

Often I find that giving it a rotate order to make it do a 360 before firing delays it considerably.

[Sitting Duck]

Yah...I issued an 'Area Fire' command to a flamethrower team last night and noticed the same thing.

I wish there was some sort of 'Covering Fire' command (or something) that would reduce the rate of fire for these situations. It would be great if you could also define the area to receive the fire. Kind of like the way a cover arc defines an area to watch - but need more specfic for cover fire, more like a sizable TRP.

There are times when I just want 1 or 2 'bursts' (flamethrower or otherwise) just to discourage my adversary.

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Tigrii:

Often I find that giving it a rotate order to make it do a 360 before firing delays it considerably.

surely you meant 180° ??

othwerwise, I sure would like to know how you do a complete 360° with the rotate command.

seriously, a PAUSE function pertaining to the firing of mortars, AT gun pieces, AA gun and assorted other equipment would be rather useful. There are workarounds for some, but not for allpossible applications of such a command/feature.

[Sabrewolf]

perhaps you should target the enemy unit instead of firing the building, its risky but shouldnt be problem since you have an MG cover as you mentioned

[M Hofbauer]

Originally posted by Sabrewolf:

perhaps you should target the enemy unit instead of firing the building, its risky but shouldnt be problem since you have an MG cover as you mentioned

well I guess we all here assumed that this was not possible.

you know, there are times when the enemy is at the other side of the house and you do not have LOS to him? well, then it *is* a problem to target them.

[Terrapin]

Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

Maybe use Pause and a sneak order to let your FT fire away for say or 30 sec, then sneak the opposite direction ...

I thought the manual said that you can hit the Pause button multiple times for 10 seconds each? Can't you do that? Or is there too much order delay?

[Tigrii]

Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tigrii:

Often I find that giving it a rotate order to make it do a 360 before firing delays it considerably.

surely you meant 180° ??

othwerwise, I sure would like to know how you do a complete 360° with the rotate command.

seriously, a PAUSE function pertaining to the firing of mortars, AT gun pieces, AA gun and assorted other equipment would be rather useful. There are workarounds for some, but not for allpossible applications of such a command/feature.</font>

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Originally posted by Terrapin:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Silvio Manuel:

Maybe use Pause and a sneak order to let your FT fire away for say or 30 sec, then sneak the opposite direction ...

I thought the manual said that you can hit the Pause button multiple times for 10 seconds each? Can't you do that? Or is there too much order delay?</font>

[Halberdier]

I know that units are supposed to stop area-firing their guns after a building is rubbled, though they don't always stop (IIRC, this was a patch to CMBO). A recent example is a T-34/85 that I had targeting a couple buildings where after it rubbled the first one I had to cancel, but it auto-canceled after it rubbled the second one. <shrug>

As for flamethrowers, I also noticed that they don't stop firing after the target area is on fire. I thought that this was also supposed to auto-cancel? In any case, this really should be on the next patch. Ooooookaaay, I'll do a search...

...AHA!!

From a long-ago CMBO patch ("...." I used to shorten):

v1.01 6/14/2000

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

....

* TacAI fixes:

....

* Flamethrowers stop firing once their AREA target is burning.

BTS pleez fix or do somefink!

cheers,

-gabe-

[ December 04, 2002, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Halberdier ]

[The_Capt]

Uh guys,

You can do some move tricks but keep in mind if your FT is spotted (and moving will make this easier) he is as good as dead.

Personally, when those flameboys finally get a moment in the sun and fire off their great spouts of oily burning...well you get the idea. Anyway, when they do get the chance I really wan't to see them give it to the other guy. I mean there is no kill like overkill..burn the bastards, then melt their helmets!! OHHHHH YAAAA!! CLEANSING FIRE SEARING THEIR PITIFUL FLESH SENDING THEIR BLACKENED SOULS STRAIGHT TO....ahem...sorry.

Anyway, why bother conserving ammo they are going to die the next turn anyway, so use it all when you get the chance.

[Eden Smallwood]

Originally posted by Halberdier:

From a long-ago CMBO patch ("...." I used to shorten):

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />v1.01 6/14/2000

* Flamethrowers stop firing once their AREA target is burning.

</font>

[Frunze]

Area fire may make flamethrowers less effective, even at setting buildings on fire. At least within factories - both my opponent and I were noticing this in a battle within a large factory. One of my flamethrowers on area fire used up all his ammo without even setting the tile alight, but all the flamethrowers - on either side - that targeted a unit directly did set the tile on fire. On the first blast, I think.

[markgame]

Originally posted by The_Capt:

Anyway, why bother conserving ammo they are going to die the next turn anyway, so use it all when you get the chance.

Let's do a little thought experiment.

I'm private Fritz (or Ivan). I've got this huge freaking tank of very nasty stuff on my back and I'm trying to do my damnest to avoid even being seen, much less getting shot at.

My sergeant, passing on orders from the Great Player In The Sky, orders me to torch the next door building. Doing this will of course will require me to stand or at least expose part of myself, and when I light up every bad guy, who all by nature hate flamethrower carrying soldiers, will be trying to kill me.

So what do I do? Do I carefully observe how much fire I lay on the building, stopping when it seems sufficiently alight? And how do I judge that, especially when (and this is something probably not considered by many) while the flamer is active, I can't even see my own point of aim?. To accurately observe my efforts, I should sent a short burst, look, send another burst, look, etc.

WHAT, AM I CRAZY?

I do that and I give every enemy nearby plenty of time to hunt me down. So instead I give it several big honking blasts, trying to not be too obvious that I am deperate to use up all the fuel so I can drop the whole ensemble off my back.

So I agree with The_Capt, no reasonably self-preserving flamethrower wielding soul should be counted on for more than one target. If you get more, great, but I think that CMBB's TacAI correctly has the guy try to use up the fuel right away.

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by The_Capt:

Uh guys,

You can do some move tricks but keep in mind if your FT is spotted (and moving will make this easier) he is as good as dead.

Personally, when those flameboys finally get a moment in the sun and fire off their great spouts of oily burning...well you get the idea. Anyway, when they do get the chance I really wan't to see them give it to the other guy. I mean there is no kill like overkill..burn the bastards, then melt their helmets!! OHHHHH YAAAA!! CLEANSING FIRE SEARING THEIR PITIFUL FLESH SENDING THEIR BLACKENED SOULS STRAIGHT TO....ahem...sorry.

Anyway, why bother conserving ammo they are going to die the next turn anyway, so use it all when you get the chance.

Heh heh, LOL. I think the same way about U.S. Abn 3-man .30cal teams, they only get 35 ammo and if they take 2 casualties they get immobilized...use that ammo while ya can, then get 'em off the map or to safety. Unless I'm thinking:

Capt.Silvio: hey Corporal, how do you feel like being a HERO today?

Cpl.Gonnabiteit: Do I LOOK LIKE I want to be a hero?

[OGF Keller]

Originally posted by The_Capt:

Uh guys,

You can do some move tricks but keep in mind if your FT is spotted (and moving will make this easier) he is as good as dead.

Personally, when those flameboys finally get a moment in the sun and fire off their great spouts of oily burning...well you get the idea. Anyway, when they do get the chance I really wan't to see them give it to the other guy. I mean there is no kill like overkill..burn the bastards, then melt their helmets!! OHHHHH YAAAA!! CLEANSING FIRE SEARING THEIR PITIFUL FLESH SENDING THEIR BLACKENED SOULS STRAIGHT TO....ahem...sorry.

Anyway, why bother conserving ammo they are going to die the next turn anyway, so use it all when you get the chance.

Yes, exactly.

Flamethrowers are good for three things:

1. Routing out a squad which is already sighted and pinned.

2. Setting a building or area on fire for tactical purposes

3. Ambush.

The ambush is truly rare, but it DOES happens. See the screenshot below, from a Stalingrad scenario I am designing. Ivan is moving along what he thinks is a nice narrow street empty of Fritz (note all the dead German bodies lying around) when he runs right by a flamethrower, in a building on the other side, who simply incinerates him.

I am sure this was rare in the rural/steppe world, but in the city? or in Stalingrad? I bet it happened a lot more than one might think.

[ December 13, 2002, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: OGF Keller ]