View Level 1 forced

[Fate]

In looking at the cmbb screenies, with things poking out of the grass and wheat, I was thinking wouldn't it be a cool option to have a pbem/tcpip game with a force view level of 1? No choice, what you can see is what you get.

Obviously, this wouldn't be too good for larger scens and yes, I'm aware of Franko's true combat rules thing. I lack the willpower to manually keep to those levels.

You'd have to have some method of looking at the map during the game that did not show units. Perhaps just manually print out the setup screen. A little compass with each unit selected to show which way it's facing?

Do tanks have a higher line of sight origin than troops?

Now it gets real important to get that spotting unit up on the second floor of a building or on a hilltop overlooking the battle.

Whadya think? A cool option to have?

[Michael Dorosh]

This could only be effective if all the buildings didn't share the same bmps,and the trees didn't change around everytime you reloaded the 3D world. Otherwise, my guess is it would be too hard to keep your orientation. It's doable, but with some other necessary coding - ie a map feature, compass feature for individual units, etc. But CMBB was never intended to be a first person simulator, so these additions are unlikely - though it would be cool at some point to see them.

[ August 22, 2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by Fate:

In looking at the cmbb screenies, with things poking out of the grass and wheat, I was thinking wouldn't it be a cool option to have a pbem/tcpip game with a force view level of 1? No choice, what you can see is what you get.

Obviously, this wouldn't be too good for larger scens and yes, I'm aware of Franko's true combat rules thing. I lack the willpower to manually keep to those levels.

You'd have to have some method of looking at the map during the game that did not show units. Perhaps just manually print out the setup screen. A little compass with each unit selected to show which way it's facing?

Do tanks have a higher line of sight origin than troops?

Now it gets real important to get that spotting unit up on the second floor of a building or on a hilltop overlooking the battle.

Whadya think? A cool option to have?

I agree with Michael, with some work, it could be done. But as it is, I would get lost in the woods!

I think this would be a great addition, especially for those who play against the computer alot. I tryed the iron man rules, but could never have enough strneght of mind not to jump to different views!

Perhaps after the code rewrite . . .

Chad

[gredeker]

Originally posted by Fate:

Do tanks have a higher line of sight origin than troops?

It was my understanding that view level 1 represented eye level for unmounted infantry, level 2 represented eye level of a commander in an "average" unbuttoned tank, and view 3 is the height of infantry in the second floor of a building.

[Michael Emrys]

Hmmm, I think level 2 is the second story of buildings. View 1 is roughly the viewpoint of an unbuttoned TC. View 3 seems to be about 10 meters up and 4 maybe about thrice that. Or something...

Michael

[gredeker]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Hmmm, I think level 2 is the second story of buildings. View 1 is roughly the viewpoint of an unbuttoned TC. View 3 seems to be about 10 meters up and 4 maybe about thrice that. Or something...

Michael

I can't tell right now, I'm at work...

[aka_tom_w]

Well if you want to know what it is like you can try Panzer Elite. It's NOT CMBO but it is sort of fun, if you really want to be forced to see everything view level 1 (that of your tank platoon TC) then try panzer Elite and good luck spotting those hidden AT (88 mm) guns 1 km out there that kill you (in a Sherm) without any warning what so ever !

Yes it is a WWII tank combat simulator BUT it does force you to view level ONE ONLY.

Its hard but its good to know this is no other way to see the "big picture"

PE will let you look at an overal "roadmap" like view 8 but really only a road map and nothing more, and will approximate (with tiny little tank symbols) the location of your tank platoon on the big road map. It is different from CMBO and it is sort of hard to get used.

I would like to see an IronMan/Frankco's Rules set option that both players could select as an additional FOW setting. That Iron Man setting combined with Extreme FOW would make the game more like some folks here would want, BUT I bet it would not hold the same "appeal" or FUN level of game play as the current way it is now. (But it would be fun to try, I think it would be HARD and for SURE it would seperate the GOOD tactical players from the gamey videogamers in NO time!)

oh well

-tom w

[ August 22, 2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Commander]

The problem I have in playing at level one only is the fact that it is hard to plot moves. In a true first person perspective, the unit moves while I am using the forward key. I like the idea of the fog of war at that level though - only seeing what your men can actually see.

[Louie the Toad]

I play FTCR every so often with the following modifications and rationalizations for them. These might be solutions to some of the problems posted above.

I use level 5 to look straight down at a friendly unit or two. But I do not scroll around while in this position. I use it to maneuver the unit around corners in and out of buildings, behind walls and the like. Because: the game mechanics do not model this type of movement realistically at all from View 1. This can also help orient a unit on a landmark that it can see. But No scrolling allowed.

Level 2 is the second story of a building. Level 3 is the steeple of a church. Because: You can see further of course. I make sure the viewing unit is located on level 2 just below the steeple.

Occasionally use level 7 or 8. Because a company commander might use a map. NO Scrolling.

Enemy units appearing on the map are due to reports coming into my command post. This would help in orienting units as well.

I suppose one could argue for Level 4 if you had an aircraft and could somehow prove that it was in contact with the ground forces. Certainly not something that happened early in the war. I dont do this though.

The Rule of Thumb that really works is:

Would I really be able to do this/see this on the battlefield from the levels allowed. Have I earned these levels?

Yes the high ground becomes very important, as it should.

Take That Hill... Toad

[Philippe]

The few times that I have actually played CMBO, I've always tried to play at level one. It doesn't work. The interface for issuing group orders is just too clumsy. There is no way to get a long column of vehicles to drive down a road and cross a large map in column with a level one view. Same goes for a large group of infantry, in any one of several march orders.

So what ends up happening is that I issue orders at level two or three just to be able to get my trucks to round that curve without falling off the bridge into a ravine, and watch the movie at level one. Problems there too, but I can deal with it.

I am a great believer in absolute realism. In fact, I couldn't care less if a scenario is even balanced or not, as long as it's historical. I would really like to see something like the true combat rules made mandatory (with the occasional option to pull out a Panzer Elite style rudimentary map, but with even less on it than in Panzer Elite). But I don't think it can work realistically (in both senses) if you spend all of your time fighting with an interface that won't let you give credible group orders. If I spend a lot of time micro-managing movement, it is because I am trying to get the game to simulate the kinds of orders I would have given, or my subordinates would have given in moving troops and machines from point A to point B. And we aren't even talking about the combat orders.

I guess my biggest gripe with Combat Mission is not that I can micromanage, but that I have to micromanage in the first place. A lot of that activity, if handled by better group commands, would not only speed up game time considerably, it could make it more realistic as well.

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by Philippe:

The few times that I have actually played CMBO

Do you mean you put so much effort in CMMOS and you don't actually play the game ? :eek:

[Chad Harrison]

Originally posted by Philippe:

The few times that I have actually played CMBO

Is that sacrelegious?