Line of sight in fog – why the German superiority?

[REVS]

I had posted a query about this in the CMBB forum, as I first noticed this with the Russians, but it also applies to all Allies (Americans, Brits, etc)

In thick fog, or fog at dawn, all Germans (Infantry, AFVs, support weapons, etc) can see much better than the Allies. Why?

Here's how it works. Both sides can see across open ground the same distance (eg 200 metres in fog at dawn). But all Allied forces can only get line of sight to buildings at a reduced distance (ie, 172 metres in fog at dawn). In many cases the Allies can see open ground 20 metres beyond the 'sight blocked' building, but they cannot get a line of sight into the building.

However, the Germans can see buildings at the full 200m. So the Germans have a 28 metre wide zone in which they can shoot at the Allies, but the Allies cannot shoot back at them.

I also posted about this in the CMBB forum but received no meaningful replies. Please don't say "the Germans have better optics" because this strange line of sight thing applies to foot soldiers as much as AFVs, and we're only talking 200 metres here at most, anyway.

As it's a feature of both CMBB and CMAK it seems intentional, but I just cannot think of a good reason why this should be so. The other option is that it's a bug that carried over undetected from CMBB to CMAK, and remained undetected.

[ August 23, 2007, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: REVS ]

[The_Enigma]

Its because there genetically engineered uber soldiers ... jeez everyone knows that!

[John Kettler]

REVS,

I gave it a shot in your first thread, but I'd love to see an official BFC reply.

Regards,

John Kettler

[J.R.]

Optics quality? (shrug)

[Guest Guest]

deleted per user request

[REVS]

AdamL: Bzzzzt! Wrong answer – it has happened several times, all in Quick Battles.

JR: Bzzzt! Wrong answer: (shrug)

John Kettler: thanks for replying John, you're a gentleman.

Madmatt: take a break from CMSF and offer a bit of customer feedback on the old products, eh?

[Wicky]

CMBB Scenario Editor

Hotseat

Extreme FOW

Dawn Fog still

Reg Soviet infantry platoon* 179m away from heavy building can see (blue line) 184m max into heavy building.

Reg German infantry platoon* 179m away from heavy building can see (blue line) 184m max into heavy building.

It seems LOS for Axis and Allied units are both identical. However depending on the angle that the squad has looking towards the building, and the orientation of the door (or apertures** hidden under the bonnet) , LOS can differ.

*in HQ command (out of LOS of building)

** There is a flukishly rare chance that LOS/LOF can occur through to a target hidden behind a building

[ August 27, 2007, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ]

[REVS]

Wicky, that is weird.

I’ve just gone back to my scenario editors in both CMBB and CMAK and tried my hardest to replicate your findings. In CMBB I simply cannot get a Russian HQ guy to see a building at anything beyond 172m, no matter where I put him in relation to the building (all tests done on flat ground). I even did the tests on both Macs I have here at home (an eMac and a G4 tower). Same results.

In the CMAK Scenario Editor I did discover that an Allied (Brit) leader can sometimes see the full 200m to a building, but only occasionally. More often than not his LOS is blocked beyond 172m. When he can manage to see, say, 190m to a building, if I move him, say, 5m to the left or right, still on flat ground facing the building, the line of sight sometimes is blocked, even though the distance to the building is less than the 200m sight maximum for dawn/fog. This glitch routinely happens in the zone between 172m and 200m, and often chimes in at 172m.

At first I thought I had the identical problem in CMAK that I first noticed in CMBB (which is why I started up this thread here, too). While playing a game in fog at dawn recently (on terrain with medium hills/medium forest) there wasn't one single occasion when my Allied guys could get a line of sight to a building outside 172m. But now I accept that it's possible in CMAK for an Allied leader to see a building out to 200m in the Scenario Editor, but it is thoroughly glitchy in game play.

I can't reproduce the same glitch for German leaders, and my regular CMAK/CMBB opponent who always plays Germans hasn't noticed anything problematic with his LOS during game play. And yes, I’ve checked that I have the latest versions of CMAK and CMBB, by the way.

[Wicky]

Be aware I made a test set-up in the scenario editor and then watched the results in a hotseat game.

HQ units will have binocs that's why I kept them out of LOS. I'll run some further tests and post some screenies later

[Redwolf]

Don't take it for granted that LOS in the editor is the same as in the game. I don't know it is not, but there have been other subtle differences when the game actually runs in "combat mode".