AT guns

[coe]

Got a few questions about AT guns...

Several scenarios I have to rush AT guns to the scene and it is such that they have to deploy possible under long range fire. (e.g. Stuarts firing 37mm from 2000m against 88's in their Prime-movers. This causes the AT mover to back off and not deploy where I want it too and I have to repeatedly try to force this to happen - the problem is with the 88's I can't drop them off and then roll them up the hill or to where they can see the enemy. any tips as to how to go about making the movers not chicken out.

Second with an 88 on its mover - if I try to disembark it, (by using the move command) the blue line seems to originate right at the vehicles origin which would seem to indicate that it would be dropped right at the origin point (since it is immobile) - the problem is that it isn't where it actually gets dropped off. (e.g. prime mover moves up hill and reaches the top while facing the top - you'll notice the AT gets dropped off slightly down hill of the prime mover - on the other hand if the prime mover rotates then the AT gets dropped off higher up.

Third, my 88s open up on targets far away - this is all fine and dandy but often they only open up for a round or two then the target disappears in haze and then they target another thing somewhere else and the same happens but at that point the original target reappears at about the same distance - the dust having settled. Now my 88 has to reaquire the target all over again? And this leads to a very low number of hits at a distance than what I'd expect? I'd think that perhaps there was a little built in memory as to what it takes to hit something if it appears again in the similar area. Or does that not happen?

Conan

[Joachim]

You need a smoke or dust screen to hide behind.

88s are a challenge. Forget them when you have to move. I had 2 in a PBEM. One got lucky and found a perfect spot. The SdKfz7 maneuvered backwards up a small rise and in the small triangle of open ground between to rough tiles. It got some Lees later.

The other one was a bit too far behind a crest, had really bad LOS when there was no smoke from the tanks ahead and none when anything moved. It is a gamble.

Third - try a (blue) armored covered arc. It will stop the gun from firing outside the arc when not directly threatened. The memory thing would be cool, but you're not the first one to ask for it

Gruß

Joachim

[John Kettler]

coe,

Joachim offered a number of useful and practical suggestions. Regret to inform you that game engine limitations prohibited the modeling of the 88's full capabilities, notably the ability to fire ~plus or minus 20 degrees while still being towed. IOW, while still on wheels, rather than with the cruciform mount deployed and the gun firmly staked down. This means that you can't do some of the nasty things Rommel actually did. And once you drop tow on the 88, it's there for the duration in all three of the current CM games. This prevents you from taking full advantage of his tactics of quickly moving up and deploying a Pak screen, then demonstrating with Panzers, followed by a retreat to draw the pursuers onto the unknown to them Pak screen. Rommel didn't have all that many 88s, so not being able to get this vital weapon out of battery and redeployed during the game smarts, especially in conjunction with Borg spotting (one sees, all see) and no modeling of German smokeless/flashless powder or muzzle blast related dust suppression measures. Thus, CM antitank guns are much easier to spot and engage than real ones were during the war. Unless you can keyhole or periodically mask yours once they've opened fire, don't expect them to last very long. If they're in trenches, though, that's another matter entirely.

Regards,

John Kettler

[tar]

But did Rommel, in fact, move his mobile 88mm guns around on the battlefield in the time scale of a typical CM battle?

[Joachim]

Depends on the battle. CM allows for 120 turns. In a 80 turns monster, I brought forward a PaK screen to support the attack on a hill. Enemy reinforcements trying to flank my attack ran into 2x 3.7 AA and 4 ATGs including an 8.8 about half a mile from my setup zone (turn 25-30). If the scen was less open I might have been able to redeploy some of them till turn 50.

I know other scens where I had to move ATGs that were smaller. In most of them the guns did not move after firing. Some saw the guns in bounded overwatch.

Gruß

Joachim

[MikeyD]

88s are a mixed blessing in defense and a positive pain to use in offense. I believe one German general proclaimed the ex-Russian 7.62 AT gun, not the 88, to be the best overall AT gun of the war! :eek:

It seems to me that 88 accuracy is kinda wacky in the game. There appears to be a grey area where accuracy falls off at mid-range then improves again. I swear sometimes that stubby 75mm howitzer seems more accurate a medium range! Maybe its my imagination. If your 88s are able to dominate the battlefield in CMAK its more likely because Brit 2 pdr solid shot can't easily KO your guns, not due to any inherant superority of the 88.

For AT guns other than the 88 you're often able to lay down mortar smoke and quickly set up your gun behind it. 88s take so darned long to deply you're likely to be caught with your pants down when the smoke clears and you die without getting off a shot!