Speedy Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Just got CMAK yesterday and have had a little play with it. My question is in QB's in 1942 why can I only select Australian troops in October and November? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I just did it and had all sorts of choices....what region? Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Sorry Rune I wasn't too clear with my question, what I meant was that they were the only two months in 1942 in which Australian troops were available, and this was in NA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubbits Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 A quick look at the Australian War Memorial site shows that 6th and 7th Divisions left for home after Tobruk Aug 41. The 9th Div stayed till after El Alamein Oct/Nov 42. By the end of 42 the only Aussies left we airforce personel. Going to have to dig a bit more to see what the 9th Div was up to between Aug 41 and Oct 42. Wubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by Wubbits: Going to have to dig a bit more to see what the 9th Div was up to between Aug 41 and Oct 42.I think they were in Palestine doing a combination of garrison duties, R&R, and retraining. They might have been pulled back into the Delta after July, '42. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wubbits Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 I found some timeline info on the following site ANZAC Corps March 41 - Ordered into front line in Lybia April 41 - Entrenched in Tobruk Dec 41 - Last 9th Div Batt relieved from Tobruk Withdrawn to Syria for re-equip July-Sep 42 - Moved back into Egypt defend Alexandria Oct 42 - Particiate in El Alamein Offensive If its correct then that just leaves the couple of months where they were defending the El Alamein line before the offensive starts. Wubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Australia withdrew all its ground troops from Nth Africa due to the much closer and apparently serious threat of Japanese invasion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Not long after the Australians were the first to hand the Japanese their first land defeat of the war in New guinea.I can not remember the place but it was before Kokoda. The Yanks finished them off after that ! If the Aussies are in CMAK then I'm sold. I will order online today ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Milne Bay - also where the first evidence of atrocities committed by Japanese soldiers on POW's and civilians was discovered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 6th and 7th Australian Divisions left for New Guinea in January '42, while 9th Aus. Div left for Syria about the same time. However, 9th Aus. was rushed back to Africa in July '42, just in time to take part in the attack by XXX Corps, on 10 July, (along with 1st South African Division) on the Tel el Eisa and Tel el Makh Khad heights --- just across the Libyan border, near the Med coast. It started with what German accounts call the heaviest artillery bombardment since WWI. Rommel heard the gunfire all the way down south, where he was attempting to flank the New Zealanders. Rommel immediately broke off his attack, and rushed his mobile troops north; only to find that the Australians / South Africans had obtained their objectives and crushed the Italian Sabratha Division in the process. It was only the timely intervention by von Mellenthin and a kampfgruppe frantically put together from Panzer Armee HQ and elements of 164th Lt Div that kept the whole front from collapsing. With the arrival of Rommel, the Aussies / SA troops dug in and endured almost continuous counter-attacks until 14 July. The NZ attacks on Ruweisat Ridge would immediately follow, and draw off Rommel's attentions. However, during these desperate attacks to their south, the Aus / SA troops were constantly making feints and probes in an attempt to draw off / pin down Axis forces in their sector. Finally, as Second Ruweisat failed, it was decided that the Aus / SA divisions (with the aid of 1st Armoured and a brigade from 50th Div.) would break the Axis line at Miteirya Ridge on the night of 26 - 27 July. It was a disaster. Two Northumbrian battalions and an Australian battalion were overrun before British tanks could reach them. Some 400 Australians and 600 British were lost. This would pretty much mark the end of major operations until Rommel attacked the southern end of Brit defenses on 30 August. The 9th Aus Div, however, would remain as the anchor of the northern-most defenses (fighting off the occasional Axis diversionary attack), until October. Between 10 July, and before beginning operations in October, the 9th Australian would suffer 2500 casualties. Not exactly reserve duty in Alexandria, now was it? Perhaps the Australian availability dates should be tweaked along with the German arrival date? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melb_will Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Ok this seems like as good a place as any to have a whinge. I know that CM is meant to be realistic. And certain forces only fought at certain times in real life but I think that the current system of force selection in the QB menu is a little limiting. It drives me a little nuts that certain forces aren't available at certain times. I can understand the reluctance of BF to allow German vs German but would it be that hard to allow My Australians to play against the Germans in Italy. The historical scenarios are fun but lets face it a lot of historical battles were characterised by one force being much bigger than the other and SH$%ing on the opposing force. Therefore, there is a lot of fun to be had in the what if battles. So Battle Front if it doesn't require too much work, patch AK so that all Allied Forces are selectable for all Time periods and regions. And just to be difficult if not why not. Will 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: However, 9th Aus. was rushed back to Africa in July '42, just in time to take part in the attack by XXX Corps, on 10 July, (along with 1st South African Division) on the Tel el Eisa and Tel el Makh Khad heights --- just across the Libyan border, near the Med coast. This action is what made me check up on the dates as I have an account of 2/24 Bn capture of Rommels intelligence Company 621 just to the north of the Tel el Eisa ridge. Also have an account somewhere of the attack on Ruin ridge nd the subsequent overunning of 2/28 Bn on the 27 July. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozi_digger Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 2nd AIF: Bardia - first to defeat the Italians, Tobruk - first to defeat the Germans, Kokoda - first to defeat the Japanese. I mean, look at history, the 6th Division were the first to advance into Bardia. The 7th Division fought the Vichy French to standstill in Syria. And the Ninth Australia stopped the jerries at Tobruk. The chokkos 2/32nd bn defeated the Japs at Kokoda. [ December 11, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: ozi_digger ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by ozi_digger: 2nd AIF: Bardia - first to defeat the Italians, I mean, look at history, the 6th Division were the first to advance into Bardia.Let's see...the Australian attack on Bardia was Dec 20th....the British "raid" on hte Italians had started on 9 December. What do you think was causing the Italians to be defeated and retreat during those 11 intervening days? Tobruk - first to defeat the Germans, Yeah - in the same way that the British defeated them at Dunkirk - ie they didn't get captured!! And appart from the British at Arras in France of course...... Kokoda - first to defeat the Japanese.Appart from the Australian Militia at Milne Bay of course........ The 7th Division fought the Vichy French to standstill in Syria.Fought them to a standstill huh? since that was the Australians attacking I guess what you REALLY mean is that the French halted the Australian attacks?? And the Ninth Australia stopped the jerries at Tobruk.Yeah - like hte BEF stopped them at Dunkirk and had to be rescued too!! Now don't get me wrong - the Aussies were great fighters and have a justifiably proud history, but I'm one who likes a few facts to ruin the good stories!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by ozi_digger: The chokkos 2/32nd bn defeated the Japs at Kokoda. Chokkos is a derogatory term given to militia troops (chocolate soldiers) and their units do not get the 2nd AIF designation hence 38th Militia Bn as opposed to the 2nd AIFs' 2/38th Bn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletRat Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Yeah - in the same way that the British defeated them at Dunkirk - ie they didn't get captured!! One hell of a glorious victory wasn't it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by BulletRat: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Yeah - in the same way that the British defeated them at Dunkirk - ie they didn't get captured!! One hell of a glorious victory wasn't it... </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Speedy: This action is what made me check up on the dates as I have an account of 2/24 Bn capture of Rommels intelligence Company 621 just to the north of the Tel el Eisa ridge. Would that be the DAK's elite Wireless Intercept Company? I know they got taken out during the battle --- their loss cost the Germans dearly. It was thanks to their signal intercepts that Rommel seemed to have the telepathic ability to locate the Allies in the vast emptiness of North Africa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: Any encirclement you can walk away from is a good one... Or float, swim, or have the Kiwi's & Poms come get you out of..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Speedy: This action is what made me check up on the dates as I have an account of 2/24 Bn capture of Rommels intelligence Company 621 just to the north of the Tel el Eisa ridge. Would that be the DAK's elite Wireless Intercept Company? I know they got taken out during the battle --- their loss cost the Germans dearly. It was thanks to their signal intercepts that Rommel seemed to have the telepathic ability to locate the Allies in the vast emptiness of North Africa. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 BFC what is your response, bump? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 They goofed. Fortunately there's a workaround, though it leaves something of a taste in the mouth. Chose the months they are available and go ahead and design the battle that you want to portray and just pretend that it is the appropriate time. In most cases this will work, though in some cases the OOBs won't be exact. Like I said, it leaves a taste... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 I know what you're saying Michael but wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a patch to fix these incorrect appearance dates in CMAK which not only includes the Aussies but also the correct earlier appearance date of the Jerries? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick15 Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Mike And the Ninth Australia stopped the jerries at Tobruk. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah - like the BEF stopped them at Dunkirk and had to be rescued too!!---------------------------------------------------------------- Though it goes against the grain to take an Aussie's part after too many years watching cricket - the Aussies did play the most significant part in handing German arms their first tactical and strategic reverse in WWII. The prelude was 11 April '41 - 2/13 and 2/17 bns of the Aussie 20th brigade (9th Div) with support from 1st RTR and 1st RHA stopped Rommel's first attack on Tobruk. On 13/14 April Rommel launched an 'all out assault' with Ponath's 8Mg, Engineer Bn 200 and 1st and 2d bns 5Pz covered by large concentrations of Italian artillery. The Australians (2/13 and 2/17 again) manning the perimeter posts pinned down the German infantry separating them from the Panzers. Though the Aussie positions were not reduced and continued to hold up German infantry and A/T the Panzers rolled past and through the Tobruk perimeter (Red Line)at 0500 to be engaged by 5 portees of 3RHA, A/T guns of 3AA-T and A/E battery 1RHA (over open sights). By 0730 the Panzers were in full flight - 17 left behind destroyed or damaged - and being harried by elements of 1st RTR (The diary of eyewitness Leutnant Joachim Schorm of 5Pz describes a rout). By the evening the last German presence in the perimeter 8MG had been eliminated and its commander, Ponath, killed (8MG had ration strength of 1400 prior to these Easter battles and just under 300 after). Rommel of course launched more attacks later than this but never captured Tobruk in '41 and never had the opportunity to push hard at Alexandria and Egypt while in eastern Libya in '41. These Easter battles saw German Panzers and Infantry/AT support separated and defeated in detail for the first time - tactical defeat. Unlike Arras it was also strategically significant denying the Axis the port and closer (to Egypt) supply point - Tobruk - very different to Arras which denied nothing except a greater haul of BEF POWs. The infantry involved was Australian (first Australian VC of WWII was won on 13/14 April by LCpl J.H. Edmondson), supporting arms British. The command and control in Tobruk Australian - General Morshead known to his troops as 'Ming the Merciless'. Seems ozi-digger has at least one right. If you want a good dispassionate account from a bona fida 'Rat of Tobruk' - "Tobruk - The Great Siege Reassessed" F. Harrison, Brockhampton Press 1996. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: I know what you're saying Michael but wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a patch to fix these incorrect appearance dates in CMAK which not only includes the Aussies but also the correct earlier appearance date of the Jerries?Yep, it definitely would and I don't know what BFC could have been thinking in the first place. So far, this looks to me like a lapse in research, but I don't know how they could have missed something this obvious and nobody, either at BFC or the beta testers, caught it. Color me puzzled and perplexed. :confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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