theike Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 It would only be for personel use, Bogdan, after using one ore two i would probably throw them away again to save space on my computer.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kingfish: I'm going to use Wolverines, since the Achillies doesn't show up in CMBO until Jan '45. Yes, quite right too. I just cross-checked with a couple of different sources and discovered that CM has it right - no M10C Achillies till early '45. I'm just off to beat the first source into a bloody pulp with a 3 inch stick. Toodle pip. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 13, 2004 Author Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by DesertFox: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kingfish: I'm going to use Wolverines, since the Achillies doesn't show up in CMBO until Jan '45. Yes, quite right too. I just cross-checked with a couple of different sources and discovered that CM has it right - no M10C Achillies till early '45. I'm just off to beat the first source into a bloody pulp with a 3 inch stick. Toodle pip. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DesertFox: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kingfish: I'm going to use Wolverines, since the Achillies doesn't show up in CMBO until Jan '45. Yes, quite right too. I just cross-checked with a couple of different sources and discovered that CM has it right - no M10C Achillies till early '45. I'm just off to beat the first source into a bloody pulp with a 3 inch stick. Toodle pip. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 * blah * I'm not familiar with the pictures you mention, and don't have access to those books, but I have no reason to doubt what you say. You are right about Chamberlain, but I did cross-checked against 2(NZ)Divs records which has them receiving Achilles in Jan '45, or thereabouts. Now, granted 2(NZ)Div was in Italy, and that theatre often got kit later than NWE, but since the match up of dates was so good I took it to be accurate. The other sources I have aren't specific enough to tie a date down. Going from memory, the main visually distingusishing features between the 3-in and the 17-pr M10 were the muzzle brake (sort-of spherical on the Achilles, not present at all on Wolverine) and a differently shapped counterweight (I believe it is) hanging off the back of the turret. Otherwise, both vehicles were more-or-less identical - even down to using the same mantlet I think. I guess I need to go and take some 3-in dents out of that first source now ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 JonS, I haven´t had time to scan&upload the pics I mentioned. Will do at the weekend, however meanwhile hop to : Missing Links about M10 Achilles in Normandy to get some additional info on the matter in question. cheers Helge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Right - thanks. If you download report #141 from this site, and scroll down to page 21 - 23 there is a fairly detailed discussion of Achilles. BTW, the last post in the thread you linked to (the one by Jens Menher) is wrong Just off to edit my 'no Achilles' post on the previous page of this thread Regards JonS [ October 14, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 So then the obvious question would be how common were the Achillies in Normandy? According to the link Jon provided the 4th Canadian armored div swapped their Wolverines for Achillies, but it appears the infantry divisions retained the towed version. Would this practice carry over to British units as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Actually, the link indicates that 3CanInfDiv never had towed 17-pdr. For the assault they had 8 x 6-pr and 4 x Wolverines per bty. These Wolverines were subsequently swapped for Achilles. 2nd Can Div had a more standard org, incl towed 17-pdr. In a corps A-Tk regt (i.e., 73rd), a single bty would be either towed or SP. There were two of each type of bty in each corps A-Tk regt. A towed bty would have 3 x 4 17-pdr. An SP regt would also have 3 tps of 4 guns. This page indicates that each SP bty would be homogenous - either 12 Wolverines or 12 Achilles, though mixing may also have been common. There is some good stuff here too. AFAICT, A-Tk regts in armd divs followed the pattern of corps A-Tk regts. Regards JonS [ October 14, 2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: JonS ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Originally posted by JonS: BTW, the last post in the thread you linked to (the one by Jens Menher) is wrong That's probably correct, but I did notice one discrepancy myself. In nearly all the photos, the turret is aligned with the gun in the one o'clock position, but in the bottom pic, it's in the ten o'clock position. :confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 If you look closely at where the tank is in all the photos, it is clear that in some of the photos it has been pushed to one side to clear the road. That explains the damage to the fender (the corner of the hull is a perfect spot to spush on to get good leverage), and probably explains the turret (traverse it to get the long 17-pdr barrel clear the road). Not all photos of the same thing are taken at the same time Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 14, 2004 Author Share Posted October 14, 2004 Does the type of motor transport in a battalion dictate what type of squad that battalion would field? IOW, according to this site, of the 4 infantry battalions in 12SS Pz only one (III/26) was equipped with SPWs. Given that, would the squad makeup of the other battalions be the 10-man motorised infantry, or would some retain the 8-man PzGr makeup? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 14, 2004 Share Posted October 14, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: Does the type of motor transport in a battalion dictate what type of squad that battalion would field? IOW, according to this site, of the 4 infantry battalions in 12SS Pz only one (III/26) was equipped with SPWs. Given that, would the squad makeup of the other battalions be the 10-man motorised infantry, or would some retain the 8-man PzGr makeup? I'm afraid that 8-man for SPQ and 10-men for trucks squads is more of a CM thing than a real-world thing, especially in July of 1944. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 @ Jon, Yes, I had the strong impression that the last pic in the thread was taken first, perhaps soon or even immediately after battle, and that the others were pretty much staged at some later time. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war2004 Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Originally posted by Kingfish: I am looking for any info on the battles around La Bijude, a small town located roughly between Epron and Cambes. During Operation Charnwood the British 59th division battled elements of the 12th SS Panzer in and around the village. Maps, OOBs, AARs, anything would be helpful. I am particularly interested in the German's defensive deployments, especially the trench system that was constructed south of the village. So far this site has provided the best info. Many thanks in advance Do some Google seaches on "Battle of Caen" and "Pegasus Bridge". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 16, 2004 Author Share Posted October 16, 2004 Originally posted by war2004: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kingfish: I am looking for any info on the battles around La Bijude, a small town located roughly between Epron and Cambes. During Operation Charnwood the British 59th division battled elements of the 12th SS Panzer in and around the village. Maps, OOBs, AARs, anything would be helpful. I am particularly interested in the German's defensive deployments, especially the trench system that was constructed south of the village. So far this site has provided the best info. Many thanks in advance Do some Google seaches on "Battle of Caen" and "Pegasus Bridge". </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 Kingfish, are you still looking for stuff on this? I recently purchased a book which has an oblique aerial photo of Lebisey/La Bijude taken by an Air OP at 1000' in June '44. I'm happy to scan it and send you a copy. Email me (or post here) if interested. Helge, I came across the photo of "Glengarry II" (not that I doubted you anyway ) Jon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 JonS, Yes, I am very interested. BTW, would your book also have any pics, maps, etc on Noyers Bocage? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 be with you shortly. Noyers: no, sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted November 21, 2004 Share Posted November 21, 2004 There was a trench system at Buron also, the objective of the HLI of Canada during the same period; I would suspect the construction may have been the same. There are some good sources on Buron available, including of course the book BLOODY BURON which has aerial photos of the trench system. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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