Mr. Tittles Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I notice that units fired upon, even in the open, tend to have pinning and sneaking as results more often than CMBB. What I wonder is, if I give a unit a command to advance on a house, and it recieves fire; do I have the control to modify what it does next? By that, I mean if they decide to hit the ground and crawl towards different cover (sneak), should I be able to modify where they sneak to? Should there be a delay? Must they be in Command control? Should pinned units have more substantial delays? Should I have the ability to give them precise fire orders? Maybe they should decide for themselves who to fire at? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Originally posted by Mr. Tittles: I notice that units fired upon, even in the open, tend to have pinning and sneaking as results more often than CMBB. Yes, this is very true. Try out HMGs, they are WAY better than in CMBO. What I wonder is, if I give a unit a command to advance on a house, and it recieves fire; do I have the control to modify what it does next? Yes, sortof. By that, I mean if they decide to hit the ground and crawl towards different cover (sneak), should I be able to modify where they sneak to? Yes. And yes you can, by moving the way point. However I find the TaCAI most often ignores my changes and crawls towards nearest cover anyway. You can also change the waypoint to some other move type as well, but I find that the change rarely "sticks" until the units has reached cover and become un pinned. Should there be a delay? There are already substantial delay penalties for being pinned. Must they be in Command control? Nope. Hoever a pinned unit, not i CiC, the delays are even harsher. Should I have the ability to give them precise fire orders? You do have the ability, but the pinned unit mostly igores firing orders. Maybe they should decide for themselves who to fire at? See above [ November 30, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: 86smopuim ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 The only way to stop that silly auto-sneaking in CMBB is to delete all orders and put the unit on hide. That has been introduced in one of the later CMBB patches on user demand. I don't have the full game yet but in the CMAK demo I noticed that they seem to have tweaked some of it, units already in cover appear not as eager to run into the open on pressure. They also seem to have boosted the foxholes-in-open-ground cover effect. Waiting for the game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I've only played the Demo a few times, but if BTS won't fix the silly-crawly, I won't bother to purchase it. If the Tac-AI of a unit can't recognize dead ground, then they could at least program it so that it crawls in the opposite direction from enemy fire. Either that or it's already programmed to crawl towards the friendly map-edge, and the scenario designer reversed it to tweak the attack of the AI Germans. I sure would like an explanation for this "crawling towards the in-coming" behavior. BTS prides itself in realism, so I don't understand how this got into the game. I can understand how units caught half-way to an objective (on a Move/Advance order) might continue the attempt, but to have units sneak up to a crest, stop, peek over the top, then take fire and start a long-distance crawl towards the incoming... well it just borders on the ridiculous. Here's to an improved Tac-AI, Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 In LOD for a German unit, I saw a sneak retreat that went clear through the town across the river. It ignored multiple close buildings, etc. [ November 30, 2003, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Mr. Tittles ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tondu Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by kenfedoroff: I've only played the Demo a few times, but if BTS won't fix the silly-crawly, I won't bother to purchase it. If the Tac-AI of a unit can't recognize dead ground, then they could at least program it so that it crawls in the opposite direction from enemy fire. Either that or it's already programmed to crawl towards the friendly map-edge, and the scenario designer reversed it to tweak the attack of the AI Germans. I sure would like an explanation for this "crawling towards the in-coming" behavior. BTS prides itself in realism, so I don't understand how this got into the game. I can understand how units caught half-way to an objective (on a Move/Advance order) might continue the attempt, but to have units sneak up to a crest, stop, peek over the top, then take fire and start a long-distance crawl towards the incoming... well it just borders on the ridiculous. Here's to an improved Tac-AI, Ken Wow, don't be too quick to dismiss CM. Just think of all the fun that you will miss out on by not buying the game while they are fixing it. Who knows? Be part of the fix and give some suggestions. Even with CM's flaws, it is still the BEST wargame out there, by FAR. Have you ever played Pure Armor scenarios? No crawling there. Or maybe scenarios with LOTS of woods and tall pines? You won't be seeing infantry do too much there either. Lastly, BTS/BFC is dedicated to making this game better. I'm sure that there will be some tweaks and improvements put out in updates/ patches in the coming weeks/ months --and don't forget that they are in full swing for CM2 (or CMII -whatever.) You want to be part of the new engine don't you? Remember that if you don't get the game and contribute, you won't be part of what you would call the "fix." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozure Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I have to concur on the odd behaviour of broken units crawling, at least from experience in the demo of CM:AK I've seen quite a few units crawl from a hilltop covered position down a hill towards enemy fire. Most other movement seems to make sense, but units on a hill seem to be the primary problem, at least from what I've seen. The only thing I can think of is that the closest cover was nearby grassy terrain, but when presented with the option of crawling back over a hillcrest and into the covered lee of a hill, or down a hillside and into grass (towards the enemy), I should think that retreating would be in order. I suppose you could chalk it up to disorientation under fire... but crawling in the direction that MMG and smalls arms fire is coming from seems a tad odd. My current solution is to watch units under fire very carefully and to clear "wrong way" crawl orders quickly, ensuring they are replaced with movement in the safer direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwazydog Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Hi Guys, What we need to check out this behaviour are some in game movies or saves. If you have something that looks to be a possible bug, like the guys sneaking right throught he town (they were paniced or broken out of interest?) Send them through and we will have a look Dan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted December 2, 2003 Author Share Posted December 2, 2003 Originally posted by KwazyDog: Hi Guys, What we need to check out this behaviour are some in game movies or saves. If you have something that looks to be a possible bug, like the guys sneaking right throught he town (they were paniced or broken out of interest?) Send them through and we will have a look Dan I believe he was initially in some bad state but rallied but continued his crawling. I was able to halt him and give him a more rational move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Last night in CMBB I noticed two squads crawling uphill, away from the enemy. When I checked my HMG I had him area fire on those squads! No wonder they panicked! lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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