Making the CMBB -> CMAK transition?

[markshot]

When I got CMBB after two years of playing CMBO, it seemed to be a pretty significant transition. Besides new commands and behaviors, the pace of the game seemed very different ... slower; but still fun.

Additionally, I had to relearn attacking as it became much more important to provide heavy weapon support to any troops hoping to advance.

I am curious is there a similar transition going from CMBB -> CMAK? Or will it mainly be a matter of getting a grip on dust and the strengths and weaknesses of new units?

Thanks.

[CKibler]

I don't believe you'll find the transition from CMBB to CMAK nearly as difficult (??) as it was from CMBO to CMBB ...and I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

[MikeyD]

All the commands look to be the same (except no more 'Human Wave' of course). If anything I feel the game tempo may have been sped-up slightly from CMBB, but that could just be the effect of not having to trudge through Russian snow drifts.

Troops do seem to react a bit differently from the to-the-death fighting in CMBB. The board speculation, oddly enough, is that the units could be more willing to stand their ground instead of fleeing, which in turn makes them more liable to be captured (an unintended consequence?)

Basically, CMAK plays just about like CMBB with slight tweaks to behavior (with the addition of spotting those dust clouds) giving it enough of a different feel to keep it from being "Russian Front in the Desert".

[Redwolf]

It only arrived yesterday, but here are my thoughts:

Some of the ridiculous slowness has been improved in CMAK:

- turn rates are better

- command delays are much shorter, especially additonal delay for far waypoints

- artillery will probably play a bigger role again

It will probably take some experimenting to figure out how to make most of the two-turret tanks, probably a similar experience to make tanks use the bow MG effectivly.

As in CMBO, you will probably start controlling the use of the AA .50cal to preserve its ammo until needed, especially on vehicles which only have a .50cal like the M10.

It will be interesting to figure out what the Hellcat is doing in CMAK. In CMBO is overly effective AA guns and vehicle autocannons put its use to sharp limits, as did too precise onboard mortars.

For by-your-kit Quickbattles it seems that some CMBO price/ammo/manning bugs are unfixed, e.g. the M8 HMC is still cheap and the 3" mortar still has the 3-man crew. Slightly disappointing.

The 10-rocket planes and similar gadgets need exploration.

Bunkers and pillboxes are supposed to be fixed with regards to the small-gun kills. Needs investigation, if they are fixed we need to learn actually realistic tactics to get rid of them.

Terrain values need to be looked at.

[MeatEtr]

Great post redwolf. This will be great fun figuring out and learning all of the new vehicles strengths and weaknesses along with the gameplay tweaks.

"Lets shake some dust."

[Redwolf]

You are welcome.

Speaking of it, playing with dust will require some attention, too. CM will finally get combined smoke/HE barrages. Visibility in dust needs to be figured out.

I only wished my Radeon would give me the solid dust :-/

[V]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

All the commands look to be the same (except no more 'Human Wave' of course).

There should be a "Cannon Fodder" command for the Italians...

[Topi]

Originally posted by redwolf:

It only arrived yesterday, but here are my thoughts:

Bunkers and pillboxes are supposed to be fixed with regards to the small-gun kills. Needs investigation, if they are fixed we need to learn actually realistic tactics to get rid of them.

During lunch hour I run some tests with pillboxes vs armoured cars with rapid firing guns. Setup was roughly:

- flat terrain

- 1 pb (75mm) vs 10 ACs with 20mm guns

- firing distance of about 1km

ACs usually zero'd in after few shots and mostly scored normal hits with maybe 3-5 "firing slit penetrations" per turn, all combined.

Few runs with green pb vs reg ACs:

Takes only 1 or 2 penetrations to panic and pb was usually bailing after the first turn.

Few runs with veteran pb vs reg ACs:

Pb takes a few penetrations to panic, but despite panic and further penetrations just keeps firing. (Fanatics maybe, but occured every time.) One pb was actually panicked for 4 turns and during that time ko'd all ACs, only after firing stopped it reverted back to shaken.

Not much of statistical accuracy with such a small sample (ran out of lunch time ), but my first impression was that at least veteran pbs seemed to be quite resistant to small caliber guns. Greens seemed to run as easily as before.

Topi

[von Lucke]

Played through a moderately large scenario (not to give it away, but it involved some French folk being attacked by some German folk in June of 42).

My impression is that infantry is somewhat less brittle than it was in CMBB: The attackers kept on coming --- whereas in CMBB, attempting to cross all that open space would have led to a lot of crawling about. What was especially telling was that at the end, when I checked the morale states of the attackers, I saw very few Routed or Broken results. In CMBB, red morale states would have been the norm at the end of a scenario. Did seem to get more surrenders then usual, though.

Same with the defenders: The French guns / MG's actually kept up a decent rate of fire even after coming under fire themselves --- and most of them lasted out the game --- unlike the CMBB "die a lot now" once a gun has been spotted. (Though, I'm not sure how much that had to do with most of them being in sand-bagged emplacements --- not sure what the bonus for that is, since they look like walls).

Mortars seem to be a lot more adept at finding and re-quiring targets: Set mine for area fire on some gun positions, and they almost instantly picked up other targets (more guns, thankfully) to direct fire --- and switched between targets as they became suppressed.

[MikeyD]

Those sandbag positions are tough to figure out. I don't recall anyone ever giving out a hard number on the level of protection provided, not even during the Beta.

Same protection as a trench? as a hvy building? as a deep crater? Does a bunker positioned in a sandbag position give it added lifespan? CAN a bunker be dropped into a sandbag position?

This sounds like a job for the dedicated feature testers!

[MikeyD]

Okay, I just did a quick CMAK pillbox-in-sandbag position test and the results were:

Depressing.

Early Shermans targeting two mg pillboxes at 500m. One in the open and one inside a sandbag placement. Despite the Sherman saying hit probability was 58% and kill chance was 'rare' both pillboxes got firing slit penetrations inside of three shots and both very quickly got knocked out. Not apparent difference in or out of the sandbage emplacement for bunkers.

Hmmm... Doesn't bode well for 'gothic line' scenarios.

[ December 05, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]