TANK STANDING ORDERS - SOPs for CW tank crews

[Michael Dorosh]

Just found this in a regimental history while doing some research. CM related bits are in bold. Some of these may have been ignored (steel helmets for rad ops, for example) so usual caveats about period documents apply.

TANK STANDING ORDERS

2nd Canadian Armoured Regiment Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) 4th Edition, 5 Feb 1945

1. DRESS. Dress on going into action will be at Squadron Leader's discretion. Crew commanders, drivers and co-drivers will wear steel helmets.

2. PERSONAL. All personnel will carry shell dressing in a uniform place, throughout the Squadron, water sterilizing outfits and three mepacrine pills. Crew commanders will carry compass, binoculars and morphine syrettes, in a box, at all times.

3. KIT. Kit to be carried into action will be at Squadron Leader's discretion. Kit bags will NOT be carried. Crew commanders will be held responsible that unnecessary kit is not carried.

4. DOCUMENTS. Crews going into action will carry no personal documents other than their pay books and personal identity cards (MFM 182). Codes, code signs etc. will be limited to those actually required. When a tank is abandoned all maps, codes etc. will be removed by the crew commander who will, if there is any immediate danger of capture, destroy them.

5. AMMUNITION. Tanks will normally travel into action with 75mm gun loaded with one round High Explosive set at delay. Troop and Squadron leaders tanks may carry Armour Piercing or White Phosphorous Smoke if preferred.

Hopefully CMX2's "1:1" modelling will include ammo types in ready racks and up the spout.

6. ENGINES. Engines must be kept running whenever the guns are being fired.

7. HOMOLITES. Homolites must be kept running whenever the power traverse system is in use. The engine must be kept running whenever the homolite is running and the crew mounted.

8. TOW ROPES. Tow ropes will be attached in rear and a good shackle and pin in easy reach of the crew commander. Crew commanders will ensure that shackles and pins are easily detached before going into action.

9. PERISCOPES. All telescopes and periscopes will be wedged in for firmness against vibration and, iff possible, shellac or similar substance painted over the joints to stop dust settling.

10. TANKS LEAVING SCENE OF ACTION. No battleworthy tank will leave the scene of action without permission from the Squadron Commander or officer acting as such. A tank will NOT be evacuated because one member of the crew is hit. In all crews it will be laid down as a drill who is to take over, in the event of a casualtyto the crew commander. This drill will be practiced as part of normal training.

11. POLICY re ABANDONING TANK. When a tank is holed or blown up on a mine the crew will remain with the tank and fight until all ammunition has been exhausted, the guns put out of action or the tank catches fire, unless orders to abandon it are given by the Troop Leader or in detached roles, the crew commander.

12. DRILL FOR ABANDONING TANK. When a tank is abandoned as a flamer the crew commander will be responsible for releasing the emergency fire extinguishers. At all other times the crew commander will ensure that the following drill is carried out -

(a) The gunner will remove the striker case and spare striker case of the 75mm and the bolts of the Browning

yeah right...? These guys were using Shermans...

( The operator will put the set off net and remove the six point connector

© The bow gunner will remove the bolt and spare bolt from his Browning

(d) All personnel will take personal weapons with them. Stores removed from the tank will be turned over to the Squadron Quartermaster Sergeant at the first opportunity

13. PROTECTION OF KIT. Unless a tank is a complete brew-up or the tactical situation renders it impossible, the crew of an abandoned tank will remain in the vicinity in order to prtect kit from the tank being looted. As soon as it is clear that the tank cannot be recovered under unit arrangements, the turret crew will report to the Regimental Aid Post or Officer Commanding A.1 Echelon as quickly as possible. The hull crews will remain with the tank until the kit is removed and the tank struck off unit charge, when they will report to Officer Commanding A.1 Echelon or to TD TP "G" Squadron 25 Canadian Armoured Delivery Regiment if the tank is evacuated to AWD.

14. POLICY CONCERNING DESTRUCTION OF TANKS. The decision to destroy a tank will invariably be made by the Squadron Leader. No tank will be destroyed unless absolutely necessary in order to prevent its falling into enemy hands. The tank can be set on fire by breaking the gas lead from the homolite and setting the petrol on fire or by any other means the crew commander desires.

15. DISMOUNTING. During action no man will dismount from his tank without permission from his Troop Leader. Personnel dismounting will invariably take their personal weapons. Personnel will on NO account leave the vicinity of their tanks without permission from their Troop Leader. This rule applies in all harbour areas.

16. HARBOURS. In harbour tanks will not normally be closer than 50 yards interval. This rule may be relaxed by troop and squadron commanders in order to make full use of cover. No tank will move within the harbour area without permission. Except in the event of direct attack, AA fire will not be opened without the orders of the Squadron Leader.

17. ADMINISTRATION INFORMATION. Immediately upon moving into harbour or when the order "Pass Adm" is given, crew commanders will report to the Troop Commander requirements of ammunition, POL, casualties and mechanical condition of vehicle. Troop Leaders will pass this information to Squadron Battle Captains who will consolidate it and pass it to the Adjutant by runner or in Slidex. Officer Commanding Reconnaissance Troop and Regimental Headquarters tanks will also submit this return. Information will include

(a) ammuntion requirements

( POL required

© casualties suffered - showing if possible name and nature of casualty

(d) tank state

(e) other stores urgently required

18. INTERCOM IN HARBOUR. When Squadrons are not linked by line to Regimental Headquarters, continuous wireless watch will be kept.

19. REMAINING IN TANKS. Crews must NOT be allowed to remain in their tanks indefinitely or to sleep in them. Troop Leaders will ensure that crews dismount and dig in to rest, in spite of casual artillery or mortar fire.

20. HATCHES ETC. Crew commanders will NOT close both turret flaps except under very heavy mortar fire when the situation does not demand unrestricted vision. Drivers and co-drivers hatches will not be fastened. Saftey belts will NOT be used.

21. MOVEMENT CONTROL. When in forward area, awaiting a movement order an all round watch must be kept. This is especially important when on a road or if wireless silence has been imposed and orders must be sent by messenger.

22. CAMOUFLAGE. At no time will a tank go into action without camouflage in the form of branches, shrubs, etc. unless a special order to that effect is issued by Commanding Officer or Squadron Leader. Troop Leaders and crew commanders will be held responsible that this order is complied with unless permission to the contrary is given by the Commanding Officer.

23. MAINTENANCE. Essential maintenance comes ahead of rest. Squadron and Troop Leaders and crew commanders will be held responsible that this order is complied with unless permission to the contrary is given by the Commanding Officer.

24. WIRELESS MAINTENANCE. Operators will carry out daily maintenance tasks and make appropriate entries in wireless logs.

26. REPORTING OF COMMUNICATIONS. Any communcations faults affecting unit or sub-unit will be reported to Regimental Signals Officer through Battle Captain.

27. DISCIPLINE. Failure to obey these orders will be treated as a court-martial charge.

[Wartgamer]

5. AMMUNITION. Tanks will normally travel into action with 75mm gun loaded with one round High Explosive set at delay. Troop and Squadron leaders tanks may carry Armour Piercing or White Phosphorous Smoke if preferred.

I assume this means that the loaded round for the leaders could be AP or WP depending on the immediate threats?

I believe the US tankers stored HE with delay being the normal setting. SQ being a commanded loader drill. Delay had the most uses under most situations then. There are reports that there were problems with the fuses also. Sometimes the delay would not work or took too long and the shell would fly skyward typically. So SQ may have been the stored state then.

Some of that SOP is BS. Brits abandoned shermans and everyone knows it. So did everyone else.

[Private Bluebottle]

They are Standing Orders. It is how a unit commander expects his soldiers to behave. They are like SOPs but carry more force and you can be court-martialled if it can be proved you disobeyed them.

Its not stated when they were issued. They may well have been before the invasion of Europe and when action had been engaged for the first time. It might also be simply how the unit commander wanted his soldiers to behave and he wanted to communicate the gravity of his intent by making them Standing Orders rather than a SOP.

[Other Means]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

{snip}

Brits abandoned shermans and everyone knows it. So did everyone else.

Spotting some redundancy here...

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Private Bluebottle:

Its not stated when they were issued. They may well have been before the invasion of Europe and when action had been engaged for the first time.

It does, actually - February 1945, just as the unit was leaving Italy for NW Europe. They fought in Italy from Feb 1944 to Feb 1945, so they had been in action for about a year already.

[Wartgamer]

Originally posted by Private Bluebottle:

They are Standing Orders. It is how a unit commander expects his soldiers to behave. They are like SOPs but carry more force and you can be court-martialled if it can be proved you disobeyed them.

Its not stated when they were issued. They may well have been before the invasion of Europe and when action had been engaged for the first time. It might also be simply how the unit commander wanted his soldiers to behave and he wanted to communicate the gravity of his intent by making them Standing Orders rather than a SOP.

TANK STANDING ORDERS

2nd Canadian Armoured Regiment Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) 4th Edition, 5 Feb 1945

To give an SOP or Standing Orders or whatever you want to call this bilge to combat vets must have elicited many chuckles.

Essential maintenance over sleep? Then you can dig a hole and sleep in it? No sleeping in tanks?

Its Mickey Mouse BS.

[Soddball]

Interesting document. I doubt (from what little I've read of tanking) that such a document was followed in some areas, in particular the 'stay inside the tank even if you get shot' section. Remember that the SOP for the RAF in 1939/1940 led to dozens of dead pilots because it was written by people who weren't in the thick of it.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Private Bluebottle:

They are Standing Orders. It is how a unit commander expects his soldiers to behave. They are like SOPs but carry more force and you can be court-martialled if it can be proved you disobeyed them.

Its not stated when they were issued. They may well have been before the invasion of Europe and when action had been engaged for the first time. It might also be simply how the unit commander wanted his soldiers to behave and he wanted to communicate the gravity of his intent by making them Standing Orders rather than a SOP.

TANK STANDING ORDERS

2nd Canadian Armoured Regiment Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) 4th Edition, 5 Feb 1945

To give an SOP or Standing Orders or whatever you want to call this bilge to combat vets must have elicited many chuckles.

Essential maintenance over sleep? Then you can dig a hole and sleep in it? No sleeping in tanks?

Its Mickey Mouse BS. </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Equipment before self (ie sleep) is nothing new in the military. I am wondering what Wartgamer's own military experience is?

It's clear he doesn't understand the rationale for not allowing men to sleep in the vehicles. Perhaps a reading of SOUTH ALBERTAS would clear up what was really done in Canadian armoured units as opposed to what the SOPs were.

I will agree that some things on the list are unlikely - I don't see the gunner removing the firing mechanism from the 75 and the coax given the likelihood of a brew up after the vehicle has been "holed" for example, but I am sure that in the event due to a minestrike, or in a case where a vehicle didn't burn and there was a chance to re-enter the vehicle, this was in fact done.

I just thought that with 1:1 modelling, it would be interesting to see what crews were actually required to do on bail out. If CMX2 will have any kind of SOP modelling, then bailed crews in the CW will be required to stay with their vehicles (battle situation permitting). Perhaps they should be considered under a (!) sign and unable to move out of LOS of their vehicle until such time as enemy infantry come within a radius of "x" metres. Or somefink. Tough to implement something like that without seeing lots of weird exceptions (does it count if the enemy infantry is across an unfordable river, for example?) and probably not worth the processor (or coding) time. So the player is forced to adopt realistic SOPs through artificial means, ie victory points. Maybe abandoned tanks will have more victory points if "possessed" (like we do flags now) by friendly units.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Soddball:

Interesting document. I doubt (from what little I've read of tanking) that such a document was followed in some areas, in particular the 'stay inside the tank even if you get shot' section. Remember that the SOP for the RAF in 1939/1940 led to dozens of dead pilots because it was written by people who weren't in the thick of it.

I'm not sure who the author of this was, but as noted, it was published in Feb 1945 after a full year of combat. I don't doubt some of it was not followed - steel helmets for drivers for example may not have been slavishly followed (tankers love their black hats) and I know for sure the stowage of extra kit was often caravan like, at least in NW Europe.

The same history had a list of tanks, and the casualties suffered, which I will translate for my website soon. One tank was knocked out when a "bazooka" set fire to the stowage on the engine deck. Will CMX2 model sleeping bags on a 1:1 scale?

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I will agree that some things on the list are unlikely - I don't see the gunner removing the firing mechanism from the 75 and the coax given the likelihood of a brew up after the vehicle has been "holed" for example, but I am sure that in the event due to a minestrike, or in a case where a vehicle didn't burn and there was a chance to re-enter the vehicle, this was in fact done.

But even these days the list for a “bail out” drill here in Aust is about 12 dot points long - so if you are being assessed it takes about 15mins (at a feverish pace) to go through it all.

No doubt in action if you are hit and the OC or SSM isn’t in the vicinity the list might be somewhat “abbreviated”. Same goes for the “bail out drill“ for amphib vehicles that sink.

Reminds me of that old story of a fire extinguisher discovered unused after a fire with all the instructions after step 25 burnt off.

[ March 14, 2005, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: gibsonm ]

[Andreas]

He obviously felt the need to make these things standing orders with court martial threat, why was that?

[Wartgamer]

I find it hard to believe that anyone could be expected to fight a days battle, reload/refuel, perform first line maintaince, dig a foxhole and then they can sleep?

Its BS. Many German crews would sleep in the vehicle or under it after parking it for the day.

Surprised the report does not say how many times the crew needs to chew its food before swallowing.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

[QB] I find it hard to believe that anyone could be expected to fight a days battle, reload/refuel, perform first line maintaince, dig a foxhole and then they can sleep?

Its BS.

What military experience do you have yourself? You're in no position to judge. There was a nice picture making the rounds during the Iraq war of a US convoy stopped for the night - all the drivers and codrivers had shellscrapes dug and were lying in a few inches of water in the rain. NOT in the vehicles, which had roofs and heaters.

Many German crews would sleep in the vehicle or under it after parking it for the day.

Source?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Andreas:

He obviously felt the need to make these things standing orders with court martial threat, why was that?

CYA?

[gibsonm]

Perhaps he was just “anal”.

This was before Mission Command / Directive Control was “adopted“ from the Germans and he probably felt the need to spell things out (esp if crew’s standards had slipped during the Italian campaign).

Or perhaps someone from “higher” had directed it (there is only so much rubbish a CO can shield his soldiers from).

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by gibsonm:

Perhaps he was just “anal”.

This was before Mission Command / Directive Control was “adopted“ from the Germans and he probably felt the need to spell things out (esp if crew’s standards had slipped during the Italian campaign).

Or perhaps someone from “higher” had directed it (there is only so much rubbish a CO can shield his soldiers from).

It is quite possible, thinking of the latter case, that the orders were in anticipation of the move to First Canadian Army.

Eight Army was noticeably lax as far as individual discipline (I shouldn't say lax, perhaps "more lax" as a relative measure). The Canadians in Italy knew by this point they were being moved to NW Europe, and the commander there - Crerar - had been very much the tightass when he commanded the Canadian Corps in Italy when the Strathcona's first entered combat in early 1944.

Perhaps they were anticipating a return to the same chicken**** after the repatriation to First Canadian Army - now under Crerar - in 1945.

[gibsonm]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

I find it hard to believe that anyone could be expected to fight a days battle, reload/refuel, perform first line maintaince, dig a foxhole and then they can sleep?

Well then you haven’t spent much time with armoured vehicles. At least back then they didn’t have night vision kit so there was some respite when the Sun went down.

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

Its BS. Many German crews would sleep in the vehicle or under it after parking it for the day.

Have you ever tried to sleep in a tank? Its not some sort of spacious tracked Winnebago. Crew positions are designed for functionality and all the “free“ space is cramed full of ammunition, radio kit or other gear that the AFV designer thought would be a good idea to have in it whilst trying to keep the overall size as small as possible.

Why do you think personal gear ends up on the outside. No one voluntarily puts his sleeping gear etc. outside were it can be shot up, burnt or generally ruined if there was the chance of properly stowing it inside.

Crews often sleep outside on the rear hull deck (on top of a nice wam engine compartment in strict order so the picquet knows who to wake up - not a good idea to wake the CC if its not his turn).

Alternatively you sleep beside the vehicle. Never, never under it as overnight rain or softness in the soil itself may lead to the vehicle “settling” overnight (numerous tails of crewman who crawled under and were crushed in their sleep).

[ March 13, 2005, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: gibsonm ]

[flamingknives]

ISTR that there were references to crews who did sleep under their tanks due to sporadic artillery fire, although a slit trench was almost invariably dug first, recalling just such instances of crews crushed by settling tanks. Probably Peter Beale's "Tank Tracks" or Ken Tout's "Tank!"

[Michael Dorosh]

People who have never had to stand fire piquet invariably have no idea what the concept is all about. Been there done that - woke up the section commander by mistake, been woken up by mistake myself, too. Not fun. Couldn't imagine trying to get inside a f***ing tank to wake up the next guy so he can do his radio watch or piquet duties.

[Wartgamer]

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/dosdonts/index.html

Most units just find a small depression or shell hole, drive tank over it and thats all thats needed. Digging is just more incredibly hard work that a crew would have to do.

Many combat accounts describe crews staying in the vehicle if they can't leave the front line. Tigars in the Mud comes to mind. And yes sleeping in any vehicle is uncomfortable but I recall at least one description where certain positions were better than others.

[melb_will]

Just personally, I I had a choice of sleeping under a big ugly target like an AFV or of slightly away in a small inoffensive foxhole, i'd take the foxhole.

Cheers

Will

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Wartgamer:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/dosdonts/index.html

"The list, which the British do not intend as a complete study of the subject, is presented here in part for the information of our troops."

This is all experience from the desert, for one thing, and for another comes from 1942, before tanks saw combat in Italy (where the Strathcona's were from 1944 to 1945), but what on that page stood out as being relevant to the topic at hand?

[JonS]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

People who have never had to stand fire piquet invariably have no idea what the concept is all about. Been there done that - woke up the section commander by mistake, been woken up by mistake myself, too. Not fun. Couldn't imagine trying to get inside a f***ing tank to wake up the next guy so he can do his radio watch or piquet duties.

heh, good point

I saw that one as a morale thing - forcing the guys to get out of their vehicles for a substantial part of each day so they get used to the idea of being able to function without 2 inches of steel between them and the enemy. One of the NZ Armd Regts followed the infantry into Cassino town in Feb/Mar 44, and were unable to withdraw at nights, and very close to the enemy. As a result the crews spent several days in their vehicles, and started exhibiting some odd behviours.

You know where to find the NZ OHs if you want to check it out.

Jon

[Private Bluebottle]

Originally posted by JonS:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

People who have never had to stand fire piquet invariably have no idea what the concept is all about. Been there done that - woke up the section commander by mistake, been woken up by mistake myself, too. Not fun. Couldn't imagine trying to get inside a f***ing tank to wake up the next guy so he can do his radio watch or piquet duties.

heh, good point

I saw that one as a morale thing - forcing the guys to get out of their vehicles for a substantial part of each day so they get used to the idea of being able to function without 2 inches of steel between them and the enemy. One of the NZ Armd Regts followed the infantry into Cassino town in Feb/Mar 44, and were unable to withdraw at nights, and very close to the enemy. As a result the crews spent several days in their vehicles, and started exhibiting some odd behviours.

You know where to find the NZ OHs if you want to check it out.

Jon </font>